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<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Steve,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>I might contact you off-line as it would be great
to know what to expect before we do this install. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>My reason for posting on wrenches is so that this
issue can come to light, so that other installers can get a "head's up", and/or
so that other installers can provide their own feedback based on their
experience.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>My personal experience is that I have
contacted SMA and Tigo, back and forth now for the past three days trying to get
absolute confirmation. So far, I have yet to be able to get any resolute
answers from either company.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>In fact, one tech at SMA told me that Tigo is
currently field-testing an SB4000TL inverter with Tigo optimizers and has
experienced no problems so far. This was great news as my
design-in-question is using two SB4000TL inverters with Tigos. When I spoke to a
head tech at Tigo he said they indeed are field testing <U>one</U> SMA
inverter but it is not an SB4000TL and it has only been in testing for a few
months.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>I was told that there was an AFCI issue, then that
there wasn't. Some techs told me I would need to disable the AFCI. Others told
me I wouldn't have to. I asked about MPPT struggling between the two tracking
systems and couldn't get a firm answer. The last tech I spoke to at SMA,
who was audibly conversing with others in the background, said that his
engineers were telling him that they did not have definitive answers; that they
haven't done enough testing to know for sure but that so far everything
seems OK.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>I always say a broken compass is worse than no
compass at all. Techs giving out wrong information is bad for everyone involved.
It would be better to be honest and say "we don't know for sure but we'll make
our support and resources available to you while you test this configuration in
the field"; kind of like Enphase did for us Beta testing installers back in
2008.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>If what you say is true and there are no
issues then that is great news but that's news that this installer will be
taking with a grain of salt...and a shot of tequila.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>Eric Stikes</DIV>
<DIV>SunHarvest</DIV>
<DIV>001.530.798.3738 (Cell)<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=Steve.Jefferson@sma-america.com
href="mailto:Steve.Jefferson@sma-america.com">Steve Jefferson</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, June 12, 2013 12:30
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [RE-wrenches] Tigo and SMA
AFCI - Was: AC coupled, grid-tied Sunny Island - contactor & bypass</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=WordSection1>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Afternoon
Wrenches,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Sorry
been out of the office for a week or so.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Not
sure where/who/how anyone commenting on this is getting their information but,
there is no compatibility issue with SMA inverters and Tigo
equipment.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">There
is a FW patch that some of the Tigo need (older units) to be compatible with
the AFCI function.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Past
that no issues.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">No
inverters blowing up or anything dramatic like that, just a FW update, that’s
all.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Please
contact me offline if you have further questions.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">SMA
America, LLC<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Steve
Jefferson<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><I><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Supervisor,
Service Line</SPAN></I><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">6020
West Oaks Blvd, Suite 300<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Rocklin,
CA 95765 - 3714<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">U.S.A.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Tel: +1
916 625 0870<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Fax:
+1 916 624-2445<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Service
Line +1 877 697 6283 (Toll Free)<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Email:
steve.jefferson@sma-america.com<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><A
href="http://www.sma-america.com/">www.SMA-America.com</A><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">This
email and any attachments thereto may contain SMA America, LLC confidential,
privileged and private material for the sole use of the intended recipient.
Any review, copying, or distribution of this email (or any attachments
thereto) by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended
recipient, please contact the sender immediately and permanently delete the
original and any copies of this email and any attachments thereto. Thank
you.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><A
href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQWzPuyqhzo&feature=youtu.be"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt; TEXT-DECORATION: none"><IMG
id=Picture_x0020_7 border=0 alt=cid:image003.png@01CE517D.21006940
src="cid:6D37C9065F5A42E18D9978A18A629827@ERocks" width=432
height=90></SPAN></A><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">
re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org] <B>On Behalf Of
</B>Ryan<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, June 05, 2013 5:36 PM<BR><B>To:</B>
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [RE-wrenches] Tigo
and SMA AFCI - Was: AC coupled, grid-tied Sunny Island - contactor &
bypass<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal>From Robin<BR><BR><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">It
has been pointed out that the Tigo modules can and do blow up some charge
controllers and inverters. When a charge controller or inverter has fairly
fast tracking, the two units fight each other. We have found Classics using
the fast tracking mode will blow up with Tigo’s in the system. We also found
that putting the Classic in the slower tracking mode, Legacy, solves the
issue. We are aware that at least one major inverter model must defeat the
tracking in order not to blow up. We have not yet tested our arc fault
detectors with Tigo modules, but plan on doing this in the near future. It
might be possible that the Tigo modules present a signature that looks like an
arc. That must be what is happening with the SMA inverter.
</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Robin</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>On 6/5/2013 3:33 PM, SunHarvest wrote:<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Just an FYI for
anyone wanting to use Tigo optimizers with SMA inverters incorporating AFCI
-</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">According to SMA
the Tigo optimizers will not operate with the SMA inverters. They didn't go
into detail. They just said the AFCI feature of the Sunny Boy is not
compatible with Tigo. After further discussion they acknowledged that
disabling the AFCI feature in the Sunny Boy would allow compatibility with
the Tigo optimizer. Awesome.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">After talking
this over with Tigo they came to the same conclusion but neither company
seemed too happy or confident in the marriage.
Awesome.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Eric
Stikes<BR>SunHarvest</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: black 1.5pt solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt 3.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in">
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">----- Original
Message ----- <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV><PRE style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><B>Wrenches,<o:p></o:p></B></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><B>Here's an update on this configuration (20kW Enphase, AC coupled to <o:p></o:p></B></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><B>Sunny Islands) you should know about:<o:p></o:p></B></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><B><o:p> </o:p></B></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><B>Enphase will not support and warranty the use of their micro inverters <o:p></o:p></B></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><B>in an AC-coupled installation with battery-based inverters. Enphase <o:p></o:p></B></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><B>approved this verbally with us in design, but balked when we asked <o:p></o:p></B></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><B>them to back it up in writing. Their issue/point is that AC-coupling <o:p></o:p></B></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><B>violates the UL1741 listing.<o:p></o:p></B></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><B><o:p> </o:p></B></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><B>Thus, we're revising the design to use Sunny Boy string inverters. Our <o:p></o:p></B></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><B>customer would still like the module-level monitoring and optimization <o:p></o:p></B></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><B>offered by the micro-inverters (there is some shading issue), so we're <o:p></o:p></B></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><B>considering using string optimizers. We have not used string- <o:p></o:p></B></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><B>optimization, yet. It looks like the leading options are Solar Magic <o:p></o:p></B></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><B>and Tigo.<o:p></o:p></B></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><B><o:p> </o:p></B></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><B>Any preferences, cautions, or advice with choosing and using <o:p></o:p></B></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><B>optimizers would be appreciated.<o:p></o:p></B></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><B><o:p> </o:p></B></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><B>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></B></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><B><o:p> </o:p></B></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><B>-Kelly<o:p></o:p></B></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><B><o:p> </o:p></B></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><B>Kelly Keilwitz, P.E.<o:p></o:p></B></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><B>Principal<o:p></o:p></B></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><B>Whidbey Sun & Wind<o:p></o:p></B></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><B>Renewable Energy Systems<o:p></o:p></B></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><B>NABCEP Certified PV Installer<o:p></o:p></B></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><B>WA Electrical Administrator<o:p></o:p></B></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><B>987 Wanamaker Rd.<o:p></o:p></B></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><B>Coupeville, WA 98239<o:p></o:p></B></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><B><SPAN class=MsoHyperlink>kelly at whidbeysunwind.com</SPAN><o:p></o:p></B></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><B>PH & FAX: 360.678.7131<o:p></o:p></B></PRE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
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