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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=white lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=blue><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>What we know for sure: cSi mods have stood up through the test of time since Bell Labs cranked out the first modern-day cells in 1954. Over ½ century worth of data and real-world experience with the technology.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>What we don’t know for sure: how long cadmium telluride and other non-cSi will hold up over time. It’s a huge experiment that’s playing out before our eyes now and in the years to come for the thin films.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>marco<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Carl Emerson<br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, June 01, 2013 3:21 PM<br><b>To:</b> 'RE-wrenches'<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Defective modules<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>Hi there,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>Thin film is still getting bad press after early production suffered degradation issues way back in the 90’s.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>There is plenty of evidence that thin film produces at least 10% more energy because it performs better at temperature and responds better to global irradiance.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>Some brands may be problematic today but this is equally true of crystalline modules.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>Sure the efficiency is down and more area is needed for the same rated power but some brands are delivering 20% more energy in some climates.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>As for degradation, I have seen crystalline BP’s with every panel turning brown and clapping out after just 12 years in the pacific Islands.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>So let’s be Brand specific and not lump all thin film together and tar it with the same brush, based on early failures 30 years ago. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>Current issues backed up with hard data would be very useful…<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Regards<br>Carl Emerson<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:white'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-GB>First Solar's thin film is definitely part of the industry's early onset under performance problem.<br>With monocrystalline under $1/watt, I just don't understand why big projects are still going forward with thin film. <br>I would only use thin film for partial shading, or curved, odd shaped surfaces. (RV roofs, not MW plants)<br>The bean counters are putting too much faith in warranties and spread sheets, instead of looking at real life long term performance history. PV's been around now for several decades; there's just no excuse to keep repeating the same mistakes over again.<br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><pre><span lang=EN-GB>R.Ray Walters<o:p></o:p></span></pre><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB>On 5/31/2013 1:02 AM, Brian Teitelbaum wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I don’t know for sure, but the S. California installation in the article is likely a large Unisolar installation down there.</span><span lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>However, since the article talks about Chinese modules, which are mostly crystalline, I don’t think thin film is the major problem, if there really is one.</span><span lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Not mentioned in the article is the possibility for micro-fracturing of the cells being a major problem, especially since they are sliced so thin these days, and generally shipped lying flat, which must cause a lot of flexing during transport.</span><span lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Brian Teitelbaum</span><span lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>AEE Solar</span><span lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> <a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a> [<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Carl Emerson<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 30, 2013 2:50 PM<br><b>To:</b> 'RE-wrenches'<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Defective modules</span><span lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>Hi there,</span><span lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'> </span><span lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>Hilton’s third question is important.</span><span lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'> </span><span lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>Are we seeing a rise in thin film failure or is this only mono and poly?</span><span lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'> </span><span lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Regards<br>Carl Emerson</span><span lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'> </span><span lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span lang=EN-GB style='color:windowtext'><hr size=2 width="100%" align=center></span></div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> <a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a> [<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Hilton Dier III<br><b>Sent:</b> 30 May 2013 1:09 a.m.<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> [RE-wrenches] Defective modules</span><span lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-GB>Greetings wrenches,<br><br>I'm sure many of you have seen this article in the New York Times: <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/29/business/energy-environment/solar-powers-dark-side.html?hp&_r=1&">http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/29/business/energy-environment/solar-powers-dark-side.html?hp&_r=1&</a><br><br>I have already gotten an email from a panicked client asking about canceling his project.<br><br>First question: Has anybody dealt with defective modules lately, and if so, what brands?<br>Second question: How much does this affect first-tier manufacturers (Trina, Suntech, Yingli...) and how much of this is "no-name" brands?<br>Third question: Is this restricted to a particular technology such as thin film?<br><br>And the big question: How do we deal with this? I can imagine the fossil fuel and nuclear industries promoting this story with enthusiasm.<br><br>Thanks,<br><br>Hilton<o:p></o:p></span></p><pre><span lang=EN-GB>-- <o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=EN-GB>Hilton Dier III<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=EN-GB>Renewable Energy Design<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=EN-GB>Partner, Solar Gain LLC<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=EN-GB>453 East Hill Rd.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=EN-GB>Middlesex, VT 05602<o:p></o:p></span></pre><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB><br><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><pre><span lang=EN-GB>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=EN-GB>List sponsored by Home Power magazine<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=EN-GB><o:p> </o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=EN-GB>List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=EN-GB><o:p> </o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=EN-GB>Change email address & settings:<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=EN-GB><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=EN-GB><o:p> </o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=EN-GB>List-Archive: <a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=EN-GB><o:p> </o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=EN-GB>List rules & etiquette:<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=EN-GB><a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=EN-GB><o:p> </o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=EN-GB>Check out participant bios:<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=EN-GB><a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=EN-GB><o:p> </o:p></span></pre></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></body></html>