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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">In my opinion, based upon personal
experience, Apollo is not a company of high integrity, and I would
not encourage use of their products. I have kept my mouth shut for
too long.<br>
<br>
About three years ago, following a conversation with CEO John
Pfeifer at Solar 2009 in Anaheim, I was sent a production 3224
inverter/disconnect package to use in my own home, with the
understanding that if I liked it I'd use my bully pulpit to spread
the word and if I didn't I'd keep my communication private with
them - standard stuff. Their inverter was advertised as being
configurable as either 120/240 or straight 120. I requested
straight 120 (to replicate what I had, and because many off grid
homes were set up this way). I received a split-phase unit; when I
pointed this out, I was sent instructions on how to do the
internal wiring changes for straight 120. (First red flag: while
advertised as either, this may have been the first one tried this
way.) Upon boot-up, the inverter worked but could not charge from
a generator. Eventually, working with tech support we determined
that engineering had put the hall-effect sensing transducer on the
neutral, rather than the hot. Once this was corrected, it still
didn't charge correctly, and they sent a replacement unit. I used
this for about a year, and then the inverter's fan failed in an
"always on" mode; I learned that this isn't a field repairable
failure, but needed the unit returned to the factory. They sent a
replacement: wouldn't charge. They sent a second replacement:
wouldn't charge either, but the symptoms were different.
Ultimately, the Sales Manager at Apollo, who had been aware of all
of this, had moved west to do the same work at Magnum. He offered
me a Magnum MS4024AE with MMP at a one-time try-it-out price; I
removed the Apollo system, put in the Magnum, hooked up the same
generator, and all has worked well since then.<br>
<br>
On 1/5/2012 I wrote this synopsis to the head of Apollo's tech
support:<br>
<blockquote>Herb,<br>
As we have discussed, I have given up on Apollo equipment. When
the fan control circuit on my Apollo 3224 inverter (the second,
and in use for a bit over a year) failed in an "always on at
full speed" mode, you sent a refurbished replacement, as this
failure is not field repairable. The replacement unit arrived a
week and a half ago, and would not charge. The replacement for
the replacement arrived on Thursday (2nd day air) and also would
not charge - different technical issue, same net effect.<br>
<br>
There remain several fundamental issues with the Apollo inverter
that prevent it from being marketable, in my opinion, along with
numerous minor deficiencies. <br>
1. In my application, with the unit installed indoors, when
charging at full capacity from a generator, after about one to
two hours the unit shuts down from overheating, even with the
fan at full speed. The problem is that the entire inverter shuts
down, rather than just the charger. <br>
2. As we have discussed previously, the inverter is incapable of
equalizing from my generator, as it leaves EQ mode long before
it has completed a programmed cycle.<br>
3. The unit appears to be overly sensitive to loads with poor
power factor; when our Electrolux vacuum cleaner is turned on,
either of two computers (one a Mac, the other Windows-based)
crashes consistently.<br>
<br>
And numerous minor issues and annoyances:<br>
4. Changing any setting requires connection to a computer, and
more computer literacy than some customers would have, as the
process is not user-friendly.<br>
5. The fan's continuous periodic surge is annoying.<br>
6. The units are not designed to allow field service, so many
problems require replacement of the inverter.<br>
<br>
There are other issues, but this is sufficient as to define the
product as clearly not up to the standards of current products
on the market.</blockquote>
Meanwhile, early on when the problems appeared to be getting
resolved, I had recommended to a long-time customer needing a
major upgrade (that required a shift from 1996-era SW4024 to a 48V
system) that we use Apollo equipment. As these ongoing problems
had not yet developed, he accepted my recommendation. His Apollo
system used a 4048 inverter, with disconnect enclosure and two T80
charge controllers. This unit was set up as 120/240, so we weren't
repeating the same issues I had had. I have forgotten many of the
specifics, but after numerous callbacks (and a very sharp and
involved homeowner) we ultimately pulled the entire system out at
our expense and put in a Magnum MS4448PAE, E-Panel and two FM60s
and all of the problems went away.<br>
<br>
I cautioned John Pfeifer that this was a purchased system for a
customer, and I had not made the same confidentiality agreement
with it. He asked me not to publicly air our experiences, and
assured me they would make everything right. <br>
<br>
On 8/11/11 I wrote him:<br>
<blockquote><font face="Times New Roman" size="3" color="black"><span
style="font-size: 12pt;">John,<br>
We have completed removal of the Apollo equipment. The [X]
system is back up and in full operation. We selected a
Magnum MS44448PAE inverter, mounted on a Midnite Solar
E-Panel, with dual Outback FM60 charge controllers. This
system package is is the closest available to what made up
the Apollo package. I have attached before and after photos
of the swapout, which was completed on Wednesday 8/3/11. <br>
<br>
I will be sending you billing by separate email. I will
describe here how I have chosen to bill you, that represents
the most fair and ethical judgments I can determine. First,
I put together a package using competitors' equipment that
most closely matched your package. For instance, I did not
include the generator start option, as I had returned to you
the one we didn't use that was part of your package. Also, I
did not include any of the materials related to online
monitoring, as you had not charged me for the communications
gateway or the ASNET kit. During the swapout, I instructed
[my technicians] to record separately that time not directly
attributed to warranty work, as that will be billed directly
to [X] (you will see this as a line credit on the invoice).<br>
<br>
All components were priced at our actual cost, with no
markup, as we had already made our legitimate components
profit when we sold the hardware to <font size="3">[X]</font>.
Likewise, the materials used to swap out the systems were
estimated based on our costs, rather than on retail prices.
We added actual shipping costs, and I have estimated the
freight to return the Apollo items to you based on the
actual charges for the original items sent by you to us. In
a similar manner I discounted our travel mileage to
represent our estimate of actual costs to us to operate our
large service truck on a per-mile basis.<br>
<br>
On labor, however, I elected to bill for both the swapout
labor and all of our warranty service and travel labor at
our normal retail rates. This is because all of the work to
attempt to solve the many problems with the Apollo
equipment, to communicate about the problems with you and
your staff and with [X], and ultimately to replace the
equipment, represent hours that would have been available
for other jobs, had this ongoing effort not interfered, and
thus may be justly considered billable hours at retail
rates. Indeed, labor makes up the majority of the bill. All
of our dedicated labor is documented, and I will send hard
copies of these records by mail. I have quite the record of
emails back and forth with yourself, the Apollo engineers,
and [X] as we attempted to solve problem after problem with
this equipment. I did not charge for some of our personal
conversations about this issue, or for the (extensive) time
collating records and preparing this settlement invoice.<br>
<br>
The total invoice amount is $8,791.79. Please send payment
in full to us, such that I may return the removed hardware
to you and this entire matter may be put behind us.<br>
Thank you,<br>
Allan<br>
</span></font></blockquote>
<font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman">And John replied:<br>
</font></font>
<blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2" color="navy"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">Thank
you for the photos. Both systems look professional. I
hope that you are both satisfied with the way we worked
out the solution. This life is all about doing the right
thing and it makes me happy to be able to do that whenever
possible, no matter how it has to be done. By the way, we
have recently fixed the last bugs that you found for us.
That was not our plan, but we must move forward.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<font face="Arial" size="2" color="navy"><span style="font-size:
10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">John Pfeifer</span></font></blockquote>
<font face="Times New Roman" size="3" color="black"><span
style="font-size: 12pt;"></span></font>We received a payment
from Apollo of $2,200, then nothing more. Continuing to press the
issue, on 2/8/12 I received the following from Apollo's CFO (a
different John):<br>
<blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial">Hi Alan,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial">I am sorry for the delay in responding
– we are just a
little short staff today w/ people out on vacation.<o:p></o:p></span></font><font
face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial"><o:p> </o:p></span></font>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial">As far as sending payments – we will
start paying
$1,000/month starting this week. Once we get close to the
final payment
– we will issue a call tag or arrange for a truck to
pickup the items.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial">Thank you for your help and I hope your
health continues to
improve.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial">John</span></font></blockquote>
We received one $1,000 payment a month later and nothing since
then. We've written off the approximately $5,600 still owed us. We
have a bunch of Apollo hardware here that we don't want and can't
sell.. We finally recently used some of it for a trailer/portable
system.<br>
<br>
David Katz's suggestion of an Apollo replacement for a TR served
as the trigger for me to finally post our experiences here. Had
Apollo kept its agreement, you'd not be reading this and Apollo
would not have to deal with the effects of my posting my
experiences, if any. While their failure to reimburse us for our
troubles is the main reason for this post, I'll repeat that the
equipment itself is not up to the standards of the industry in my
experience, and I'd be cautious about using it in installations. <br>
<br>
Allan<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-signature">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;
charset=ISO-8859-1">
<title></title>
<font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><b>Allan Sindelar</b></font><br>
<small><a href="mailto:Allan@positiveenergysolar.com"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif" color="#000099"><u>Allan@positiveenergysolar.com</u></font></a></small><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><br>
<span style="font-size: 10pt;">NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic
Installer<br>
NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional<br>
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician<br>
Founder and Chief Technology Officer<br>
<b>Positive Energy, Inc.</b><br>
3209 Richards Lane (note new address)<br>
Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507<br>
<b>505 424-1112</b><br>
<a href="http://www.positiveenergysolar.com/"
target="_blank"><u>www.positiveenergysolar.com</u></a><o:p></o:p></span></font>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right: 722.25pt;"><span
style="font-size: 10pt;"><font face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif"><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:city w:st="on"></st1:city><st1:state
w:st="on"></st1:state><st1:postalcode w:st="on"></st1:postalcode></st1:place></font><b
style=""><br>
</b></span></p>
<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><br>
</span> </div>
On 5/1/2013 11:21 AM, David Katz wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:944F81E3-C545-48D4-95F0-39234AC26B79@aeesolar.com"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Ray
An Apollo inverter should fit on the same E-panel. I have using one on my off grid house for may years. They also have great remote monitoring over the internet.
David Katz
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 30, 2013, at 7:26 PM, "Ray Walters" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ray@solarray.com"><ray@solarray.com></a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">I couldn't agree more Bob-O
Pharmaceutical company? Ethics? Opps.
I thought Schneider buying them would help, but they have no idea what
they're even selling these days. Have you seen their website? I can't
even find a spec sheet for the TR in all that "Solutions for PV systems"
mumbo jumbo.
Amazing that the Trace equipment line that basically put PV on the map,
is the bottom of the heap now.
I like your 3C term. I'll put that in our dictionary near PITA ( pain
in the a__ ) factor.
R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760
On 4/30/2013 5:54 PM, Bob-O Schultze wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">The TR is a classic example of what I call 3C. Cheap Chinese Crap. If Xantrex had any ethics at all they would have killed that line and refunded everyone's dough years ago.
Bob-O
On Apr 30, 2013, at 3:44 PM, Kent Osterberg wrote:
Ray,
I've got a customer that has the same problem with a dual TR inverter system. When we first complained, Xantrex promised they were working on a fix. That never materialized and now the TR is out of production. It's a lousy product and customer service has been the same. A few months ago, I was asked to participate in a survey regarding Xantrex products and service. My responses must have got someone's attention because I got a follow-up call about the survey. There never has been a follow-up to correct this customer's problem inverter.
Kent Osterberg
Blue Mountain Solar, Inc.
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.bluemountainsolar.com">www.bluemountainsolar.com</a>
t: 541-568-4882
On 4/30/2013 3:19 PM, Ray Walters wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Hi Folks:
I just finished up another ugly rewire project for a customer that had another"installer" put in a Xantrex TR inverter.
We fixed numerous wiring issues, including neutral bonded to ground in 7 different places!
The issue we're having now though, is that the TR inverter output voltage fluctuates when running CF lighting, and the refrigerator.
You can literally see the lights cycling brighter and dimmer, and hear the compressor on the fridge running up and down in frequency. Xantrex/ Schneider Tech support said that:
A) The TR doesn't do well with CF lighting, and that we should switch to all incandescent........ hmmmm.
B) We should set the search watts to zero (which I already did)
C) We need to increase the loads on the TR, as it doesn't regulate output voltage and frequency very well at lower loads........ 2nd big hmmmmm.
I knew there was a reason I quit installing Xantrex inverters about 5 years ago, but I couldn't recall the details. Now its all coming back to my feeble, aging brain. So aside from switching out the inverter , (which I just installed on a beautiful Midnite E-Panel) does anybody have any cures for our ills? How would LED lighting behave? Should I throw a capacitor across the output? or perhaps I should just retire early and sail around the Caribbean? (I can afford a canoe/ no sail......)
As always, thanks in advance for this wonderful technical (and emotional) support group,
</pre>
</blockquote>
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