<font face="arial" size="3"><p style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: arial; font-size: 12pt;">my biggest issue with bbgt systems is the inefficiency. my 4.3 kW (stc) array typically sells 2.8 kW.</p>
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<p style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: arial; font-size: 12pt;">5 years of tracking dc input versus ac output shows the obfx inverter runs around 87% efficiency. add battery maintenance and the extra wiring to split off "backed up loads" and the economics just dont work out.</p>
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<p style="margin:0;padding:0;"><span style="font-family: arial; font-size: 12pt;">then, if you make this scenario even worse by adding battery cycling inefficiency and more frequent replacement... (to supposedly make money??) it is a no-brainer your customers "creative" idea is actually a hair brained scheme which will result in a net loss and increased consumption of resources. his money would be better spent on upgrading to more efficient appliances, improvements to his building thermal performance and conservation.</span></p>
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<p style="margin:0;padding:0;"><span style="font-family: arial; font-size: 12pt;">i would not do this for a customer... and if they insisted, i'd let them hire someone else to implement these stupid (greenwashing) ideas for him. </span></p>
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<p style="margin:0;padding:0;"><span style="font-family: arial; font-size: 12pt;">remember, you are the expert and your integrity and ethics are on the line here.</span></p>
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<p style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: arial; font-size: 12pt;">todd</p>
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<p style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: arial; font-size: 12pt;">On Friday, April 26, 2013 12:24pm, "SunHarvest" <eric@harvesthesun.com> said:<br /><br /></p>
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<div><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;">I have a crazy...I mean <em>creative</em> customer who wants a BB system so that he can run off-grid during peak and partial-peak rate hours: 1 to 7pm is peak, 7 to 9pm is partial from PG&E. He got this great idea from a tech at a reputable power optimizer manufacturer, whom I will not name here, who said, "you've got the batteries just sitting there; why not put them to work?"</span></div>
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<div><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;">Initially he wanted his PV to operate while the sun is shining and the grid is down...and his batteries to supply power when the sun <em>and</em> grid is down. But now he wants his back-up system to do it all. We've touched on all the obvious points: </span></div>
<div><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;"> </span></div>
<div><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;">- Peak buying is also peak selling</span></div>
<div><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;">- Physics and efficiency losses determine that the energy he "saves" will never equal the energy he can put back into his system.</span></div>
<div><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;">- Decreased battery life due to increased cycling</span></div>
<div><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;">- Costs for batts and special inverters versus generator</span></div>
<div><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;"> </span></div>
<div><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;">What is the <span style="text-decoration: underline;">definitive</span> argument against BB in general and this "peak shaving" idea in particular?</span></div>
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<div><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;">Thanks pros.</span></div>
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<div><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;">Eric</span></div>
<div><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;">SunHarvest</span></div>
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<div style="font: 10pt arial; background: #e4e4e4; font-color: black;"><strong>From:</strong> <a title="toddcory@finestplanet.com" href="mailto:toddcory@finestplanet.com">toddcory@finestplanet.com</a></div>
<div style="font: 10pt arial;"><strong>To:</strong> <a title="re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches</a></div>
<div style="font: 10pt arial;"><strong>Sent:</strong> Friday, April 26, 2013 11:57 AM</div>
<div style="font: 10pt arial;"><strong>Subject:</strong> Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Back-up and Grid Tie</div>
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<p style="margin:0;padding:0;margin: 0px; padding: 0px;">our power outages generally come from bad weather too... and of course when the weather is bad the pv does next to nothing. so for emergency backup, i recommend a generator.</p>
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<p style="margin:0;padding:0;margin: 0px; padding: 0px;">todd</p>
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<p style="margin:0;padding:0;margin: 0px; padding: 0px;">On Friday, April 26, 2013 10:33am, "Bill Turberville" <<a href="mailto:billturb@ece-llc.com">billturb@ece-llc.com</a>> said:<br /><br /></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;margin: 0px; padding: 0px;"><span style="color: #1f497d;">Not very often, and usually for no more than an hour or two, although it has been down as long as 5 days, either during tornado season, or ice taking down power lines. What these people are looking for is Just In Case a big event happens. They do not want to have all those panels just sitting there.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;margin: 0px; padding: 0px;"><strong><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; font-size: 10pt;">From:</span></strong><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; font-size: 10pt;"> <a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>] <strong>On Behalf Of </strong>Jay Peltz<br /><strong>Sent:</strong> Friday, April 26, 2013 12:25 PM<br /><strong>To:</strong> RE-wrenches<br /><strong>Subject:</strong> Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Back-up and Grid Tie</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;margin: 0px; padding: 0px;">Hi bill</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;margin: 0px; padding: 0px;">Just how often is your grid down?</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;margin: 0px; padding: 0px;">Jay</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;margin: 0px; padding: 0px;">Peltz power<br /><br />Sent from my iPhone</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;margin: 0px 0px 12pt; padding: 0px;"><br />On Apr 26, 2013, at 10:01 AM, Bill Turberville <<a href="mailto:billturb@ece-llc.com">billturb@ece-llc.com</a>> wrote:</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;margin: 0px; padding: 0px;">I live in a TVA area where there is a Feed In Tariff. Everything that is generated by the PV array feeds into the grid through a Generation Meter that ties-in ahead of the house meter. I have started getting calls from customers who hate having a solar array that does not generate when the grid is down but the sun is shining, but who also want to get the $.12 premium when the grid is connected. We have lots of systems with SMA Sunnyboy inverters, but more with Enphase micro-inverters. Rather than trying to reinvent the wheel, what you found to be the best solution for this type of installation?</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;margin: 0px; padding: 0px;">W.C. (Bill) Turberville P.E.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;margin: 0px; padding: 0px;">President</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;margin: 0px; padding: 0px;"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;margin: 0px; padding: 0px;">ECE Solar</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;margin: 0px; padding: 0px;">Electrical Contracting Enterprises LLC</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;margin: 0px; padding: 0px;">3080 Stage Post Road Suite 107</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;margin: 0px; padding: 0px;">Bartlett, TN 38133</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;margin: 0px; padding: 0px;"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;margin: 0px; padding: 0px;">901-348-9230 ext 101 phone</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;margin: 0px; padding: 0px;">901-348-2192 fax</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;margin: 0px; padding: 0px;">901-289-6346 cell</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;margin: 0px; padding: 0px;"><a href="mailto:billturb@ece-llc.com">billturb@ece-llc.com</a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;margin: 0px; padding: 0px;"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;margin: 0px; padding: 0px;">NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional 032611-320</p>
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