<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">We used black UV resistant plastic ties in the past, and YES, there are significant problems with failure. This may be an effect of the SW Florida climate, but I say without hesitation that they can fall apart within a few short years. I recently did an inspection on a 15kw system installed by others, and the flat roof was littered with hundreds of snapped and brittle black plastic ties. We've tried multiple brands and sources, and never found one that holds up to the Southwest Florida sun.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">We still use them on solar pool heating systems for sensor wires, but we've abandoned them on all PV jobs.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div><div style="font-size:13px;font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><div style="margin:0 0 8px 0"><p style="margin:0"><span style="color:#808080"><strong>Jason Szumlanski</strong><em> </em></span></p>
<p style="margin:0"><span style="color:#808080"><em>Fafco Solar</em></span></p></div></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 11:06 AM, August Goers <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:august@luminalt.com" target="_blank">august@luminalt.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I too share the concern about standard plastic zip ties. However, I started in the industry in 1997 and have yet to see zip ties that are falling apart. Does anyone on the list have firsthand experience with failed plastic zip ties?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Best,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">August</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">August Goers</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Luminalt Energy Corporation</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">1320 Potrero Avenue</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">San Francisco, CA 94110</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">m: <a href="tel:415.559.1525" value="+14155591525" target="_blank">415.559.1525</a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">o: <a href="tel:415.641.4000" value="+14156414000" target="_blank">415.641.4000</a></span></p><p class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><a href="mailto:august@luminalt.com" target="_blank">august@luminalt.com</a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
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<b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> <a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Solarguy</span></p>
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<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, April 25, 2013 7:08 AM<br><b>To:</b> 'RE-wrenches'<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Stainless Steel Cable Ties</div></div><p></p></div></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:#1f497d">We have used 8” flat SS ties for years and I have no concern about the wear on the conductor insulation. They are long enough to circle a standard Unirac rail and several wires leaving 1” or so tag end. Needle nose pliers work to twist the end and snug down the tie as tight as you’re comfortable with. The metal tie, once bent around the corners cannot stretch any tighter, unlike nylon, regardless of how tightly you twist the pliers. As for the edges, quality ties are not sharp. Or cheap.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:#1f497d">Jim Duncan</span></p><p class="MsoNormal">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> <a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a> [<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jason Szumlanski<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, April 25, 2013 8:08 AM<br><b>To:</b> RE-wrenches</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Stainless Steel Cable Ties</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">There was a recent thread about wire management. Heyco SunBundler ties have a vinyl coating. I recommended the clips from PV Racking that are stainless steel coated in rubber. I've had the same concern, and both of these seem like good solutions to me.</span></p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p><div><div><div style="margin-bottom:6.0pt"><p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><strong><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:gray">Jason Szumlanski</span></strong><em><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:gray"> </span></em><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><em><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:gray">Fafco Solar</span></em><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray"> </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""></span></p>
</div></div></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"> </p><div><p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 1:20 AM, Benn Kilburn - DayStar Renewable Energy <<a href="mailto:benn@daystarsolar.ca" target="_blank">benn@daystarsolar.ca</a>> wrote:</p>
<div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Wrenches,</span></p></div></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">I searched the archives, but came up with nothing on this….</span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">I have found a good supplier for reasonably priced stainless steel cable ties and have been using them in place of black nylon cable ties for supporting cables, PV wires and micro-inverter wires to the mounting rails and such. I feel better knowing the wires under the array are supported this way rather than with plastic/nylon cable ties, for which I tried but cannot get a manufacturer to guarantee will last 20+yrs.</span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">A colleague is questioning this method (SS ties) with the concern that over time the (albeit small) movement in the wires and/or expansion/contraction of the rails could result in the stainless steel cable ties cutting thru the wire's insulation and then…..</span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">I have heard this concern before from others as well.</span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">The way I see it is that the very popular stainless steel "S" cable clips that hold wires to module frames have comparable equal sharp edges as well and would pose the same risk, but there doesn't seem to be any concern there.</span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span></p></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">I am wondering who else is using SS ties in place of nylon ones, and if you are taking additional steps to protect the wire's insulation from the SS ties?</span></p>
</div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Common sense abides, meaning don't wrap a wire around the SS ties so that the wire has tension on the sharp edge of the tie. Flat edge contact with the wire only, the same way that you wouldn't run a wire across/around a sharp cut edge of a rail or anything else.</span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Thanks,</span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">benn</span></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br></p></div></div></div></div>
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