<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><div><span>We have used black cable ties since 1987 to strap sensor wire to PVC pipe for our solar pool heating systems. I was just at a system we installed in 1989 mounted on an East facing roof yesterday. The exposed 20g sensor wire still had intact and plyable sheilding and the black cable ties still firmly attached and not brittle. We have other similiar scenes with systems mounted on South facing roof were the black cable ties are still in tact under full solar exposure... for Portland Oregon. Yanking on some of these cable ties sometimes break the ancient tie. But, more often than not, as yesterday, we have to break out our wire cutters to accomplish this task.</span></div><div> </div><div>Thus, I gotta think that black cable ties under a PV array which are not exposed to any of the heat or sun we
usually subject them to... are going to last an even longer time. </div><div> </div><div><b><font face="arial"></font></b> </div>
<div><b><font face="arial">Andrew Koyaanisqatsi</font></b></div>
<div><font face="arial">President</font></div>
<div><b><font face="arial">Solar Energy Solutions, Inc.</font></b></div>
<div><font face="arial">Since 1987,</font></div>
<div><font face="arial">Moving Portland and Beyond </font></div>
<div><font face="arial">to an Environmentally Sustainable Future.</font></div>
<div><font face="arial"></font></div>
<div><font face="arial"><b>503-238-4502</b></font></div>
<div><b><font face="System"><a href="http://www.solarenergyoregon.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.solarenergyoregon.com/</a> </font></b></div>
<div><font face="comic sans ms"><b></b></font> </div>
<div><font face="comic sans ms"><b>"Better one's House too little one day</b></font></div>
<div><font face="comic sans ms"><b>than too big all the Year after."</b></font></div>
<div> </div><div><br></div> <div style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir="ltr"> <div style="margin: 5px 0px; padding: 0px; border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); height: 0px; line-height: 0; font-size: 0px;" class="hr" contentEditable="false" readonly="true"></div> <font size="2" face="Arial"> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> Chris Mason <cometenergysystems@gmail.com><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Thursday, April 25, 2013 8:12 AM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Stainless Steel Cable Ties<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container"><br>
<meta content="off" http-equiv="x-dns-prefetch-control"><div id="yiv2031156226"><div dir="ltr">Make sure you use black cable ties, the white ones fail in UV from sunlight.</div><div class="yiv2031156226gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="yiv2031156226gmail_quote">On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 11:06 AM, August Goers <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:august@luminalt.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:august@luminalt.com">august@luminalt.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid;" class="yiv2031156226gmail_quote"><div lang="EN-US"><div><div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">I too share the concern about standard plastic zip ties. However, I started in the industry in 1997 and have yet to see zip ties that are falling apart. Does anyone on the list have firsthand experience with failed plastic zip ties?</span></div>
<div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;"> </span></div><div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">Best,</span></div>
<div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;"> </span></div><div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">August</span></div>
<div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;"> </span></div><div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">August Goers</span></div><div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">Luminalt Energy Corporation</span></div><div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">1320 Potrero Avenue</span></div>
<div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">San Francisco, CA 94110</span></div><div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">m: <a href="" rel="nofollow">415.559.1525</a></span></div>
<div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">o: <a href="" rel="nofollow">415.641.4000</a></span></div><div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal">
<span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;"><a href="mailto:august@luminalt.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:august@luminalt.com">august@luminalt.com</a></span></div>
<div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;"> </span></div><div><div style="border-width: 1pt medium medium; border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223) currentColor currentColor; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;">
<div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal">
<b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> <a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Solarguy</span></div>
<div><div class="yiv2031156226h5"><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, April 25, 2013 7:08 AM<br><b>To:</b> 'RE-wrenches'<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Stainless Steel Cable Ties</div></div></div></div><div><div class="yiv2031156226h5"><div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"> </div>
<div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 14pt;">We have used 8” flat SS ties for years and I have no concern about the wear on the conductor insulation. They are long enough to circle a standard Unirac rail and several wires leaving 1” or so tag end. Needle nose pliers work to twist the end and snug down the tie as tight as you’re comfortable with. The metal tie, once bent around the corners cannot stretch any tighter, unlike nylon, regardless of how tightly you twist the pliers. As for the edges, quality ties are not sharp. Or cheap.</span></div>
<div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;"> </span></div><div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">Jim Duncan</span></div><div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal">
<span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">North Texas Renewable Energy Inc</span></div><div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;"><a href="http://www.ntrei.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.ntrei.com/</a> </span></div>
<div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">NABCEP PV 031310-57</span></div><div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">TECL-27398</span></div>
<div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;"><a href="mailto:ntrei@1scom.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:ntrei@1scom.net">ntrei@1scom.net</a> </span></div><div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;"><a href="" rel="nofollow">817.917.0527</a></span></div>
<div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;"><img border="0" alt="NABCEP Logo" width="216" height="160"></span></div>
<div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;"> </span></div><div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 26pt;"> </span></div><div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 14pt;"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 14pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 14pt;"> <a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a> [<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jason Szumlanski<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, April 25, 2013 8:08 AM<br><b>To:</b> RE-wrenches</span><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Stainless Steel Cable Ties</span></div>
<div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"> </div><div><div><div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span>There was a recent thread about wire management. Heyco SunBundler ties have a vinyl coating. I recommended the clips from PV Racking that are stainless steel coated in rubber. I've had the same concern, and both of these seem like good solutions to me.</span></div>
</div><div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"> </div><div><div><div style="margin-bottom: 6pt;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><b><span style="color: gray; font-size: 10pt;">Jason Szumlanski</span></b><i><span style="color: gray; font-size: 10pt;"> </span></i><span style="font-size: 10pt;"></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><i><span style="color: gray; font-size: 10pt;">Fafco Solar</span></i><span style="color: gray; font-size: 8pt;"> </span><span style="font-size: 10pt;"></span></div>
</div></div></div></div><div><div style="margin-bottom: 12pt;" class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"> </div><div><div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal">On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 1:20 AM, Benn Kilburn - DayStar Renewable Energy <<a href="mailto:benn@daystarsolar.ca" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:benn@daystarsolar.ca">benn@daystarsolar.ca</a>> wrote:</div>
<div><div><div><div><div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;">Wrenches,</span></div></div></div></div><div><div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;">I searched the archives, but came up with nothing on this….</span></div>
</div><div><div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;"> </span></div></div><div><div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;">I have found a good supplier for reasonably priced stainless steel cable ties and have been using them in place of black nylon cable ties for supporting cables, PV wires and micro-inverter wires to the mounting rails and such. I feel better knowing the wires under the array are supported this way rather than with plastic/nylon cable ties, for which I tried but cannot get a manufacturer to guarantee will last 20+yrs.</span></div>
</div><div><div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;"> </span></div></div><div><div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;">A colleague is questioning this method (SS ties) with the concern that over time the (albeit small) movement in the wires and/or expansion/contraction of the rails could result in the stainless steel cable ties cutting thru the wire's insulation and then…..</span></div>
</div><div><div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;">I have heard this concern before from others as well.</span></div></div><div><div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;"> </span></div>
</div><div><div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;">The way I see it is that the very popular stainless steel "S" cable clips that hold wires to module frames have comparable equal sharp edges as well and would pose the same risk, but there doesn't seem to be any concern there.</span></div>
</div><div><div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;"> </span></div></div><div><div><div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;">I am wondering who else is using SS ties in place of nylon ones, and if you are taking additional steps to protect the wire's insulation from the SS ties?</span></div>
</div></div><div><div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;">Common sense abides, meaning don't wrap a wire around the SS ties so that the wire has tension on the sharp edge of the tie. Flat edge contact with the wire only, the same way that you wouldn't run a wire across/around a sharp cut edge of a rail or anything else.</span></div>
</div><div><div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;"> </span></div></div><div><div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;">Thanks,</span></div>
</div><div><div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;">benn</span></div></div></div><div style="margin-bottom: 12pt;" class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><br>_______________________________________________<br>
List sponsored by Home Power magazine<br><br>List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>Change email address & settings:<br>http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org<br>
<br>List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org<br><br>List rules & etiquette:<br>
<a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br>
<br>Check out participant bios:<br><a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.members.re-wrenches.org/</a></div></div><div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"> </div></div></div></div></div></div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
List sponsored by Home Power magazine<br>
<br>
List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
Change email address & settings:<br>
<a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
List-Archive: <a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
List rules & etiquette:<br>
<a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br>
<br>
Check out participant bios:<br>
<a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.members.re-wrenches.org/</a><br>
<br>
<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br>Chris Mason<div>President, Comet Systems Ltd</div><div><a href="http://www.cometenergysystems.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.cometenergysystems.com/</a></div><div>
Cell: 264.235.5670</div><div>Skype: netconcepts</div>
</div>
</div><meta content="on" http-equiv="x-dns-prefetch-control"><br>_______________________________________________<br>List sponsored by Home Power magazine<br><br>List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" ymailto="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>Change email address & settings:<br><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>List-Archive: <a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>List rules & etiquette:<br>www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm<br><br>Check out participant bios:<br>www.members.re-wrenches.org<br><br><br><br></div> </div> </div> </div></body></html>