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<DIV><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Exposed single conductor sunlight resistant cable in cable trays are widely used in PV systems outside the US.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>There is a very large installed base of systems with good long term performance data using this type of construction.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>We should not discount the advantages of wire cable trays just because we are unfamiliar with it.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Look at data cabling – Characterized by many, relatively small, cables over long distances with periodic drops.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Sounds a lot like PV source circuits (other than voltage and current in the wires of course).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>There are lots of videos out there showing how to pull 10’s of pairs of wires simultaneously in cable trays.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>IMHO, we need to look at ideas like this to reduce installation cost and time.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Installation costs are becoming the tall pole in the tent and new thinking is needed.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>As systems are falling to sub $3.00 /Watt all-in, running wire in conduit will simply not be cost effective.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Running wire in conduit is one of the reasons PV installation costs in the US are double (or more) of those in Europe.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>As one of my former German colleagues noted:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>“It is only in the US where you need first to be a plumber before you can be an electrician”<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Best Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>John Berdner<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>General Manager, North America<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>SolarEdge Technologies, Inc.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>3347 Gateway Boulevard, Fremont CA 94538 USA </span><b><i><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#C00000'>(*Please note of our new address.)</span></i></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><br>T: 510.498.3200, X 747<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>M: 530.277.4894 <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Allan Sindelar<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, March 27, 2013 8:51 AM<br><b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Cable tray<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Andrew,<br>We have used #10 USE-2 for about 16 years, and our high-elevation New Mexico sun is quite intense. I have yet to see any degradation exceeding fading discoloration on any conductors from that far back, even when directly exposed to sunlight. No cracking, peeling, delaminating, or hardening.<br>Allan<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><b>Allan Sindelar</b><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><a href="mailto:Allan@positiveenergysolar.com"><span style='color:#000099'>Allan@positiveenergysolar.com</span></a></span><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer<br>NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional<br>New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician<br>Founder and Chief Technology Officer<br><b>Positive Energy, Inc.</b><br>3209 Richards Lane (note new address)<br>Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507<br><b>505 424-1112</b><br><a href="http://www.positiveenergysolar.com/" target="_blank">www.positiveenergysolar.com</a></span> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-right:722.25pt;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>On 3/27/2013 8:41 AM, Andrew Truitt wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal>Bill - What is your take in conductor insulation degradation over time when exposed to UV? Regardless of the "sunlight resistant" labeling, USE-2 (and I assume PV wire though I haven't seen it yet) does show wear after years of exposure to direct sunlight. Maybe best practice would be to use cable trays where conductors are shaded and [properly installed] conduit when exposed to direct UV?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>- Andrew Truitt<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br>Sent from my iPad<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>On Mar 26, 2013, at 11:55 PM, "Bill Brooks" <<a href="mailto:billbrooks7@yahoo.com">billbrooks7@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>William,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I have all the respect in the world for you, but I’m not referring to “basket tray”, which is only appropriate for small conductors. I’m talking about legitimate cable tray that can be up to 12” wide and that has a top and rungs every 12”. The main facilities that use it in the United States are large industrial facilities. Most electricians don’t get to work with it. It is clearly superior to EMT and is at least as good as IMC without all the hassle of threaded fittings and setting up expansion joints and worrying about 20 years of conductors thermal cycling. Even the best electricians have problems with this stuff.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I am talking about projects with 800 foot long feeder runs. We can bring them in the building and build a rack for the conduit or run covered tray outside. As the 2014 NEC will require, you will have to use contactor combiners or some other means to shut down the conductors inside a building. It’s all doable. My recommendation after seeing the aftermath of rooftop conduit by good electricians is to put cable tray on roofs and use conduit if you bring the feeders indoors. It will become common practice soon. Hopefully sooner than later.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Bill.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a> [<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>William Miller<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, March 26, 2013 9:49 PM<br><b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Cable tray</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Bill:<br><br>I have to disagree with you on this one. We can not abandoned a tried and true practice just because some practitioners don't do it right. I don't know how one can justify saying that encapsulating high voltage conductors in a conduit is less safe than exposed in a flimsy basket. Consider snow and ice and falling objects.<br><br>Too many installers entered the PV field without first acquiring the necessary skills as journeymen or women electricians. I don't see the benefit of rewriting the code to accommodate a lack of skills in the industry.<br><br>Respectfully,<br><br>William Miller<br><br>PS: The temperature adders always encourage us to enter the building envelope at the first appropriate location to avoid adding them. Thoughtful installers will do the same.<br><br>Wm<br><br><br>At 10:15 PM 3/25/2013, you wrote:<br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Content-Type: multipart/alternative;<br> boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00E3_01CE29A6.37CC5110"<br>Content-Language: en-us<br><br>William,<br> <br>I would strongly disagree that conduit is tried and true on rooftops. I have rarely seen good conduit runs on rooftops. Most electricians have no clue how to work with expansion joints. Conduit on rooftops is a bad idea in general. Most conduit runs in big buildings are all done indoors for good reason. We are the crazy people doing things on the roof. <br> <br>The sooner we get away from conduitparticularly for long feeder runsthe better.<br> <br>In Europe they don’t have problems with their rooftop wiring systems because everything is in tray.<br> <br>For those that don’t allow cable tray for anything less than 1/0, just remember that if it isn’t called cable tray, then 392 doesn’t apply. The NEC would allow us to use treated lumber in place of cable tray. This makes no sense.<br> <br>We did some research on the origin of the 1/0 requirement, and it is ancient and no longer relevant. Just because it is in the code, does not mean it is correct. That’s why we try to fix it every three years.<br> <br>Bill.<br> <o:p></o:p></p><p> <o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>_______________________________________________<br>List sponsored by Home Power magazine<br><br>List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>Change email address & settings:<br><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>List-Archive: <a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>List rules & etiquette:<br><a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br><br>Check out participant bios:<br><a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>List sponsored by Home Power magazine<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Change email address & settings:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>List-Archive: <a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>List rules & etiquette:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Check out participant bios:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></DIV>
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