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<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Upgrading to a versatile Midnite or Outback cc
seems to me a better investment. Sometimes you can match newer 72 cells
with older mods...For example, one new Canadian 280 (35.6Vmp,
44.2Voc) matches up nicely with 2 old Kyo 120's (33.8Vmp,
43Voc)....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Eric</DIV>
<DIV>SunHarvest</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=jason@fafcosolar.com href="mailto:jason@fafcosolar.com">Jason
Szumlanski</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, January 24, 2013 12:38
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [RE-wrenches] 24V Module
Query</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr>I totally agree - old mods are usually not worth messing with at
today's PV prices. In some cases it might be best to downsize the system and
then AC couple some microinverters to cover the decrease in performance, or
just replace the entire array if there are enough problems. There is a used
market for smaller PV mods on Craigslist.
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Back when I was installing Astropower 110W modules on single voltage
Xantrex C40's, I never thought we'd be using anything but 12V nominal PV mods.
Little did I know... Off-grid is really tough in these retrofit situations,
but this applies to failed/broken mods on grid-tie systems as well. That's
where I can make a good case for microinverters.
<DIV><BR>
<DIV id=WISESTAMP_SIG_gmail_session>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 13px">
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px 0px 8px">
<P style="MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN style="COLOR: #808080"><STRONG>Jason
Szumlanski</STRONG><EM> </EM></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN style="COLOR: #808080"><EM>Fafco
Solar<BR></EM></SPAN><BR></P></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_extra><BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 3:11 PM, Ray Walters <SPAN
dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:ray@solarray.com"
target=_blank>ray@solarray.com</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
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style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=gmail_quote>
<DIV bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<DIV>Hi Allan;<BR><BR>I've been in the same conundrum lately. I found
that AEE and others have 12 v modules (Solartech), but the price per watt is
double or triple. My take is that somewhere around 200 to 400 watts,
its more cost effective to go to the GT modules with an MPPT
controller. Blue Sky makes the 1524, and 3024 that can take up to 57
Voc, so those would work at still fairly low cost. Unfortunately many
of the other low cost MPPT controllers won't work with the 60 cell
modules. At some point, it may actually be cost effective to just use
60 cell modules with non MPPT controllers, and just forget about the extra
24 cells. (I know that sounds crazy, but PV less than $1/ watt is
crazy too)<BR><BR>I'm trying to add modules to an existing array of 8
Siemens 12 v modules, and it just doesn't work out, except with separate
controllers. <BR>Also, its amazing how much PV you can throw at an off grid
project these days for $10k.<BR>It almost makes messing around with the old
modules a waste of time.<BR>Perhaps the solution might be to remove old
arrays for customers wanting to really up size, and then reuse the old
modules for small systems?<BR><BR>Ray
<DIV>
<DIV class=h5><BR><BR>On 1/24/2013 12:35 PM, Allan Sindelar
wrote:<BR></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV>
<DIV class=h5>Wrenches,<BR>We have years of installing 36-cell (12V) and
72-cell (24V) modules for battery-based customers. Most of our systems are
24V or 48V nominal. Over the last few years, sources of
conventionally-sized 72-cell modules have dried up - as cells have
increased in size, most modules and most newer factory production lines
have either gone to 60-cell (20V) modules, or 72 cells in 300+ watt
ranges. It seems that the formerly common 72 cell, 24V modules in the
150-190 watt range, which are well-suited to integrating into existing
systems, are no longer available.<BR><BR>60-cell modules in the common
220-250 watt range can't be added to an existing system unless run through
a dedicated MPPT charge controller that can convert voltage, such as an
FM, XW60, Classic or TriStar; the added cost of any of these controllers
cancels out the low prices of the modules.<BR><BR>Who continues to
manufacture 72-cell modules? Which distributors carry
them?<BR> I am aware of three options - are there
more?<BR> - Sunpower makes one module in the 245 watt
range that can be used negative ground, but it's very high efficiency (and
with high Voc/Vmp as well) and very pricey;<BR> -
Sanyo/Panasonic has 225-240 watt modules, but also quite premium and
pricey;<BR> - Ameresco bought the rights to manufacture
many former BP modules, and I think they make some. But we had to replace
lots of failed BP modules in that size range, and are hesitant to use
their technology, fearing that the problems may persist in the continued
line.<BR><BR>Thank you for any discussion and
recommendations.<BR>Allan<BR>
<DIV>-- <BR><FONT face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><B>Allan
Sindelar</B></FONT><BR><SMALL><A
href="mailto:Allan@positiveenergysolar.com" target=_blank><FONT
color=#000099
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><U>Allan@positiveenergysolar.com</U></FONT></A></SMALL><FONT
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><BR><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer<BR>NABCEP
Certified Technical Sales Professional<BR>New Mexico EE98J Journeyman
Electrician<BR>Founder and Chief Technology Officer<BR><B>Positive Energy,
Inc.</B><BR>3209 Richards Lane (note new address)<BR>Santa Fe, New Mexico
87507<BR><B><A href="tel:505%20424-1112" target=_blank
value="+15054241112">505 424-1112</A></B><BR><A
href="http://www.positiveenergysolar.com/"
target=_blank><U>www.positiveenergysolar.com</U></A><U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT>
<P style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 722.25pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><FONT
face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif"><U></U><U></U><U></U><U></U><U></U><U></U><U></U><U></U></FONT><B><BR></B></SPAN></P><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><BR></SPAN></DIV><BR></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<P>
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