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That is an interesting point. The Code issue is one of definition,
not of function or safety. <br><br>
At 04:02 PM 1/15/2013, you wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">Hi August,<br><br>
I maintain that the WEEB is an irreversible splice.<br>
If you want to disconnect a WEEB from a structure, you must irreversibly
damage the device. It cannot be reused.<br><br>
Admittedly the force required to remove a WEEB is less than that required
for a thermal splice, but it doesn't take much force to just cut a wire
either.<br><br>
I would argue that the intent of the code is to prevent inadvertent
removal of the ground. You must knowingly remove a WEEB from the
grounding path and if you do so in the maintenance of an array, good
workmanship requires that you restore the connection. <br><br>
Best Regards,<br>
Brian Wiley<br><br>
<br><br>
On 1/15/2013 2:11 PM, August Goers wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite=""><br>
<pre>Hi John,
I definitely see your point and that is why I was somewhat questioning
the
use of WEEBs with Enphase below. Enphases's instructions (link posted in
thread below) seem to indicate a support of running the continuous GEC
on
the rack and then bonding the microinverter to the rack with WEEBs.
Maybe
I am misinterpreting the document or perhaps Enphase has another take.
There is no question that according to NEC 250.64(C) the GEC must be
continuous. In the 2008 NEC handbook section 690.42 Point of System
Grounding Connection has an application note "Connections are to be
made
in accordance with markings on the equipment or in the installation
instructions."
All that said, it seems like technology is leaning towards listed AC
Modules or floating array inverters. It sounds like that removes the
requirement for a GEC which is great to help reduce installation costs.
The GEC has always been a pain in the neck.
Best,
August
-----Original Message-----
From:
<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">
re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>
[<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" eudora="autourl">
mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>] On Behalf Of John
Berdner
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 7:07 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] GEC for Micro-Inverters and ACPV Modules
August:
The WEEB or other Listed grounding means between the inverter case and
the
structure are not "contiguous or irreversible spliced" and
therefore do
not meet the requirements for a GEC.
If the structure is then grounded via a bolt on lug it also is not
irreversible or contiguous.
If you can unbolt something and disconnect the ground then it is not
contiguous or irreversibly spliced.
Both of the above are ok for EGC but not for GEC.
GEC is a pain in the neck but the Code requirements are clear.
If the PV array conductor (pos or neg) is bonded to ground by the
inverter
then the inverter requires a GEC with all the related requirements - no
if
and's or but's.
Best Regards,
John Berdner
General Manager, North America
SolarEdge Technologies, Inc.
3347 Gateway Boulevard, Fremont CA 94538 USA (*Please note of our
new
address.)
T: 510.498.3201 ext 747
M: 530.277.4894
-----Original Message-----
From:
<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">
re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>
[<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" eudora="autourl">
mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>] On Behalf Of
August
Goers
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 4:32 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] GEC for Micro-Inverters and ACPV Modules
Hi Mark,
There have been some recent threads on this list touching on this topic.
As far as I understand, Enphase microinvertes still require a GEC up to
and including the 2011 NEC. I don't know about the 2014 NEC. Enphase
bonds
the positive DC module conductor to ground. Pages 16 and 17 of their
M215
installation manual address grounding:
<a href="http://enphase.com/wp-uploads/enphase.com/2011/06/Enphase_M215_Installatio">
http://enphase.com/wp-uploads/enphase.com/2011/06/Enphase_M215_Installatio</a>
nOperation_Manual.pdf
Products such as Solar Bridge that are listed as Alternating Current
(AC)
Modules (per NEC 690.2) don't need a Grounding Electrode Conductor (GEC)
as long as there are no conductors connected to ground within the
product.
Solar Bridge has a good article on this:
<a href="http://solarbridgetech.com/microinverters-and-ac-pv-modules-are-different/">
http://solarbridgetech.com/microinverters-and-ac-pv-modules-are-different/</a>
This all takes us back to using Enphase with grounding washers like
WEEBs
for the GEC. According to what I read in their instructions (and after
many phone calls), it sounds like they are okay with us running the GEC
on
the racking in #6 and then bonding the microinverters to the rack with
WEEBs. Seems a little strange but it's been working for us.
Good topic!
Best,
August
415.559.1525
-----Original Message-----
From:
<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">
re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>
[<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" eudora="autourl">
mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>] On Behalf Of Mark
Frye
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 3:31 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches] GEC for Micro-Inverters and ACPV Modules
Does anyone have the latest on the GEC for micro-inverters/ACPV issue?
I know it is still in NEC 2008 and I believe 2011 with plans to address
it
in 2014.
I am specifically interested in the issue of GEC means continues
(irreversible splices) and the whole business of the DC side of these
devices constituting a separately derived system.
Enphase technical support is fine if the micro inverter chasis is bonded
to a EGC only, but they leave the lug on the chasis if you want/need to
build a GEC.
SolarBridge (pre-assembled micro-inverter) seems to be devoid of a
chasis
lug and therefore by extension does not/can not had a GEC in the system.
Exeltech (integrated micro-inverter aka. ACPV) does not seem to have a
lug
on its chasis.
Has the industry pretty much moved to not requiring a GEC for these
devices and if so, how are the AHJ taking it?
Thanks,
Mark Frye
Berkeley Solar Electric Systems
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