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<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>From Maverick:</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV>1. With SellRE enabled, the AGS timers don't work correctly and I doubt
it will auto start. I know for sure it will not exercise. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>>So, gen auto start will only function
properly if SellRE is disabled?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT><FONT
size=2 face=Arial></FONT><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT><FONT size=2
face=Arial></FONT><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT><FONT size=2
face=Arial></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV>2. Even if you turn off SellRE, the GVFX is persnickety about AC IN and I
don't think your Genny will sync with the inverter and therefore it will not
charge the batteries.</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>>So there's <U>no option</U> to charge
batteries with a generator using a GVFX?? Am I hearing this
correctly?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Thanks Maverick.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Eric</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT><BR><BR>On Jan 16, 2013, at 11:53 AM,
"SunHarvest" <<A
href="mailto:eric@harvesthesun.com">eric@harvesthesun.com</A>>
wrote:<BR><BR></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Finally got through to Outback. They said the
GVFX could be wired with a genny line-side of the inverter in
order for the genny to charge the batteries and that this configuration
could potentially cause problems for the genny. The likelihood of the
PV sending power to the generator is extremely small as the inverter
needs to see 5 minutes of perfect power in addition to sensing a near full
battery bank before it will attempt to "sell" power back to the AC source.
Additionally, when the genset is connected with the AGS the generator will
turn on automatically when the batteries require absorption and
automatically turn off when the batteries are "full" (according to set
points). The moment when the batteries reach that "full" set point is when
the inverter may attempt to "sell" power back but this is when the AGS will
shut down the generator.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>I have, on my house, an older Xantrex SW4024
and it works fine with my Kohler 8.5kW genset but then again, it has two
AC-IN inputs which operate in mutual exclusion. Outback mentioned that while
the FX series inverters do not enjoy this feature, the Radian inverter
re-introduces this configuration. Hallelujah!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>So, it sounds like the solution for the Outback
grid-tied BB system is to install an AGS...which is part of the plan as soon
as the homeowner completes some required genny repairs.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>The solution for the grid-tied Enphase system,
it seems, will have to be asking the homeowner to shut off his PV when the
grid goes down...Ugh.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>But reading back through the older posts in
this thread, pretty much all recommending against configuring the genset
supply-side of the inverter, the question remains, for me at least, how
does the generator charge the batteries if the genny is load-side of the
inverter?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Eric</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>SunHarvest</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
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<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=eric@harvesthesun.com
href="mailto:eric@harvesthesun.com">SunHarvest</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, January 16, 2013
8:47 AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [RE-wrenches] off grid
PV connected to generator</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>For claification, the two installs with
which I'm concerned are:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>1) Grid or 8.5kW Genset ---> Manual
transfer switch ---> FlexPower One w/GVFX3524, FM80, Mate --->
transformer to 240vac ---> Residential Loads. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>This set up also has batteries and an
old 600Wstc PV array tied in to the FP1.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>2) Grid or ~10kW Genset determined
by auto transfer switch, all located at utility main
panel/meter located </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>about 400' from main residence --->
Subpanel and sub meter at main residence <--- PV-designated subpanel
<--- 8.4kW PV array w/Enphase micros.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>It's good to hear (thanks Phil) that PV
doesn't auto disconnect when the genny kicks on (didn't think this was the
case) but if the PV does not disconnect don't we end up
with PV potentially backfeeding to the genset?? Isn't this thread
discussing how PV backfeeding to a genny is a dangerous
configuration??</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>David, I can't disconnect the GVFX when the
grid is down and the genny on as both grid and genset supply the AC-IN to
the inverter via the manual transfer switch. But your comment begs the
question: Why do you recommend disconnecting the inverter?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Still trying to connect to an Outback tech
(Katee Wood)...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>Eric</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>SunHarvest</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=dkatz@aeesolar.com href="mailto:dkatz@aeesolar.com">David
Katz</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, January 16, 2013
8:12 AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [RE-wrenches] off grid
PV connected to generator</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Phil,<BR>If Eric is using the FX ot GTFX in an AC coupled
mode, he would need to disconnect the grid tie inverter when the
generator was running. From the thread, I cannot tell if this is
his situation.<BR>David Katz<BR><BR>Sent from my HTC smartphone on the
Now Network from Sprint!<BR><BR><BR>
<DIV id=htc_header>----- Reply message -----<BR>From: "Phil
Undercuffler" <<A
href="mailto:solarphil@gmail.com">solarphil@gmail.com</A>><BR>To:
"RE-wrenches" <<A
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</A>><BR>Subject:
[RE-wrenches] off grid PV connected to generator<BR>Date: Tue, Jan 15,
2013 8:07 pm<BR><BR></DIV><BR><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr>
<DIV class=gmail_extra>Eric, </DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_extra><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_extra>Good questions, and you hit on a number of topics
so let me see if I can address them one at a time, not necessarily in
chronological order. </DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_extra><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_extra>Yes, the optimal application for the GTFX / GVFX
inverter series is grid tie with battery backup. If you just want
backup to the grid, the traditional FX is a great solution. If you
need extended run-time and want to integrate a generator, then the
Radian series is a better solution because it can not only integrate
both grid and generator, but it can change its operating parameters
based on which input it's connected to. </DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_extra><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_extra>The SW, XW and Radian inverters are all capable
of operating on-grid (grid-interactive or backup) or off-grid (with or
without a generator). However, none will automatically disconnect
the PV when the genny auto-starts, nor would I suggest that they should.
Realistically, the system should only start the genny when the
batteries are near depletion -- if it's started, the batteries need all
the help they can get. Rather, the generator should only be
disconnected (turned off) when the batteries reach the absorb setpoint.
BTW, I can't speak for everyone but none of those inverters have
that functionality, at least not yet.</DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_extra><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_extra>With 600 Watts of connected PV, I wouldn't worry
about disconnecting the PV. Even with a small battery bank, the
sun will set before that size of array drives the bank anywhere close to
an absorb voltage. Add another zero to the PV size and my answer
would be different, of course.</DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_extra><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_extra>Also, if you do wind up installing an automatic
transfer switch with a battery-based inverter system, don't allow the
ATS to control the generator starting, even if that flies against every
tradition of the generator sales guy. You don't want the genny
running through every minute of the power outage, you want the system to
start the genny only when the batteries are low.</DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_extra><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_extra>Good luck with it, and enjoy the sun!</DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_extra><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_extra>Phil</DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_extra><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_extra><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_extra><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 1:50 PM, SunHarvest <SPAN
dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:eric@harvesthesun.com"
target=_blank>eric@harvesthesun.com</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=gmail_quote>
<DIV id=:31>Further, I recently installed a GVFX for a customer. I'm
hearing from certain sources that the grid-tied line of inverters from
Outback are not designed to interface with a generator.
Really??<BR><BR>I was told by Outback to install a transfer switch
line/supply side of the inverter; that this was the only way to
interface the genny with the inverter; that the AC Hot In could come
from grid or a genset. And indeed, this is the only way I can figure
out how to get the genny to charge the batteries when the grid goes
down. But then again, I don't have the extensive electrical background
that allows me to think outside the box as often as I would
like...that's why I'm posing my query here for the pros. In this
Outback install I have to again advise the homeowner to open the PV
breaker to the inverter during generator operation, right? Even though
he has a modest 600W (STC) array and an 8.5kW Kohler genset. Hardly
the opportunity for solar to feed back to the genny under the most
sunny and cool of days. I'm more concerned with the Enphase
install.<BR><BR>The Xantrex SW series inverters are fully capable of
operating on-grid or off-grid with a genset. So do those inverters
automatically disconnect the PV when the genny auto-starts? And with
the Outback, is the Mate supposed to do the same (as long as the genny
is operated by the auto-start and not a transfer
switch)?</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR><BR></DIV></DIV></DIV>
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