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--></style></head><body bgcolor="white" lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div class="WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Thanks Brian. This has been a helpful thread for me. Mark Frye, thanks for kicking it off.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Best, August</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">August Goers</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Luminalt Energy Corporation</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">1320 Potrero Avenue</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">San Francisco, CA 94110</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">m: 415.559.1525</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">o: 415.641.4000</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><a href="mailto:august@luminalt.com">august@luminalt.com</a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal">
<b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"> <a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Brian Wiley<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 15, 2013 1:02 PM<br><b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] GEC for Micro-Inverters and ACPV Modules</span></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p><div><p class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Hi August,<br><br>I maintain that the WEEB is an irreversible splice.<br>If you want to disconnect a WEEB from a structure, you must irreversibly damage the device. It cannot be reused.<br>
<br>Admittedly the force required to remove a WEEB is less than that required for a thermal splice, but it doesn't take much force to just cut a wire either.<br><br>I would argue that the intent of the code is to prevent inadvertent removal of the ground. You must knowingly remove a WEEB from the grounding path and if you do so in the maintenance of an array, good workmanship requires that you restore the connection.</span> </p>
<div><div><p><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Best Regards,<br>Brian Wiley</span></p></div></div><div><p><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><br>
<br></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal">On 1/15/2013 2:11 PM, August Goers wrote:</p></div><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><pre>Hi John,</pre><pre> </pre><pre>I definitely see your point and that is why I was somewhat questioning the</pre>
<pre>use of WEEBs with Enphase below. Enphases's instructions (link posted in</pre><pre>thread below) seem to indicate a support of running the continuous GEC on</pre><pre>the rack and then bonding the microinverter to the rack with WEEBs. Maybe</pre>
<pre>I am misinterpreting the document or perhaps Enphase has another take.</pre><pre>There is no question that according to NEC 250.64(C) the GEC must be</pre><pre>continuous. In the 2008 NEC handbook section 690.42 Point of System</pre>
<pre>Grounding Connection has an application note "Connections are to be made</pre><pre>in accordance with markings on the equipment or in the installation</pre><pre>instructions."</pre><pre> </pre><pre>All that said, it seems like technology is leaning towards listed AC</pre>
<pre>Modules or floating array inverters. It sounds like that removes the</pre><pre>requirement for a GEC which is great to help reduce installation costs.</pre><pre>The GEC has always been a pain in the neck.</pre><pre> </pre>
<pre>Best,</pre><pre> </pre><pre>August</pre><pre> </pre><pre> </pre><pre>-----Original Message-----</pre><pre>From: <a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a></pre>
<pre>[<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>] On Behalf Of John</pre><pre>Berdner</pre><pre>Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 7:07 PM</pre><pre>To: RE-wrenches</pre>
<pre>Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] GEC for Micro-Inverters and ACPV Modules</pre><pre> </pre><pre>August:</pre><pre> </pre><pre>The WEEB or other Listed grounding means between the inverter case and the</pre><pre>structure are not "contiguous or irreversible spliced" and therefore do</pre>
<pre>not meet the requirements for a GEC.</pre><pre>If the structure is then grounded via a bolt on lug it also is not</pre><pre>irreversible or contiguous.</pre><pre>If you can unbolt something and disconnect the ground then it is not</pre>
<pre>contiguous or irreversibly spliced.</pre><pre>Both of the above are ok for EGC but not for GEC.</pre><pre> </pre><pre>GEC is a pain in the neck but the Code requirements are clear.</pre><pre>If the PV array conductor (pos or neg) is bonded to ground by the inverter</pre>
<pre>then the inverter requires a GEC with all the related requirements - no if</pre><pre>and's or but's.</pre><pre> </pre><pre>Best Regards,</pre><pre> </pre><pre>John Berdner</pre><pre>General Manager, North America</pre>
<pre> </pre><pre>SolarEdge Technologies, Inc.</pre><pre>3347 Gateway Boulevard, Fremont CA 94538 USA (*Please note of our new</pre><pre>address.)</pre><pre>T: 510.498.3201 ext 747</pre><pre>M: 530.277.4894</pre><pre> </pre>
<pre> </pre><pre>-----Original Message-----</pre><pre>From: <a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a></pre><pre>[<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>] On Behalf Of August</pre>
<pre>Goers</pre><pre>Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 4:32 PM</pre><pre>To: RE-wrenches</pre><pre>Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] GEC for Micro-Inverters and ACPV Modules</pre><pre> </pre><pre>Hi Mark,</pre><pre> </pre><pre>There have been some recent threads on this list touching on this topic.</pre>
<pre> </pre><pre>As far as I understand, Enphase microinvertes still require a GEC up to</pre><pre>and including the 2011 NEC. I don't know about the 2014 NEC. Enphase bonds</pre><pre>the positive DC module conductor to ground. Pages 16 and 17 of their M215</pre>
<pre>installation manual address grounding:</pre><pre> </pre><pre><a href="http://enphase.com/wp-uploads/enphase.com/2011/06/Enphase_M215_Installatio">http://enphase.com/wp-uploads/enphase.com/2011/06/Enphase_M215_Installatio</a></pre>
<pre>nOperation_Manual.pdf</pre><pre> </pre><pre>Products such as Solar Bridge that are listed as Alternating Current (AC)</pre><pre>Modules (per NEC 690.2) don't need a Grounding Electrode Conductor (GEC)</pre><pre>as long as there are no conductors connected to ground within the product.</pre>
<pre>Solar Bridge has a good article on this:</pre><pre> </pre><pre><a href="http://solarbridgetech.com/microinverters-and-ac-pv-modules-are-different/">http://solarbridgetech.com/microinverters-and-ac-pv-modules-are-different/</a></pre>
<pre> </pre><pre>This all takes us back to using Enphase with grounding washers like WEEBs</pre><pre>for the GEC. According to what I read in their instructions (and after</pre><pre>many phone calls), it sounds like they are okay with us running the GEC on</pre>
<pre>the racking in #6 and then bonding the microinverters to the rack with</pre><pre>WEEBs. Seems a little strange but it's been working for us.</pre><pre> </pre><pre>Good topic!</pre><pre> </pre><pre>Best,</pre><pre>
</pre><pre>August</pre><pre>415.559.1525</pre><pre> </pre><pre> </pre><pre>-----Original Message-----</pre><pre>From: <a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a></pre>
<pre>[<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>] On Behalf Of Mark Frye</pre><pre>Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 3:31 PM</pre><pre>To: RE-wrenches</pre>
<pre>Subject: [RE-wrenches] GEC for Micro-Inverters and ACPV Modules</pre><pre> </pre><pre>Does anyone have the latest on the GEC for micro-inverters/ACPV issue?</pre><pre> </pre><pre>I know it is still in NEC 2008 and I believe 2011 with plans to address it</pre>
<pre>in 2014.</pre><pre> </pre><pre>I am specifically interested in the issue of GEC means continues</pre><pre>(irreversible splices) and the whole business of the DC side of these</pre><pre>devices constituting a separately derived system.</pre>
<pre> </pre><pre>Enphase technical support is fine if the micro inverter chasis is bonded</pre><pre>to a EGC only, but they leave the lug on the chasis if you want/need to</pre><pre>build a GEC.</pre><pre> </pre><pre>SolarBridge (pre-assembled micro-inverter) seems to be devoid of a chasis</pre>
<pre>lug and therefore by extension does not/can not had a GEC in the system.</pre><pre> </pre><pre>Exeltech (integrated micro-inverter aka. ACPV) does not seem to have a lug</pre><pre>on its chasis.</pre><pre> </pre><pre>
Has the industry pretty much moved to not requiring a GEC for these</pre><pre>devices and if so, how are the AHJ taking it?</pre><pre> </pre><pre>Thanks,</pre><pre>Mark Frye</pre><pre>Berkeley Solar Electric Systems</pre>
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