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<DIV><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Brain:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Not trying to be argumentative here…<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I understand that you feel that a WEEB is equivalent to an irreversibly spliced connection but, as most commonly used in the field, I disagree.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>The Code does not recognize bolted connections of any kind as equivalent to irreversible spliced or contiguous.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>It is an issue of the type of connection not the presence of the WEEB clip in that connection.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>For Example: If the WEEB connection was riveted in place then I believe it would be considered irreversibly spliced but as part of a bolted connection, no.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>With specific reference to GEC see 250.64C in the 2011 NEC or 2011 NEC Handbook. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Lastly, the argument that it is a similar level of difficult to cutting the wire, while true, is not relevant to the Code requirement. Cutting a contiguous wire is also a similar level of difficulty to opening a bolted connection but obviously a bolted connection is not a contiguous wire.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Best Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>John Berdner<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>General Manager, North America<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><img alt=SmallBannerPictEngnew height=113 id="Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image001.jpg@01CDF3CC.8AE7FDF0" width=468><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>3347 Gateway Boulevard, Fremont CA 94538 USA </span><b><i><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#C00000'>(*Please note of our new address.)</span></i></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><br>T: 510.498.3201 ext 747<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>M: 530.277.4894 <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>August Goers<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, January 16, 2013 9:22 AM<br><b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] GEC for Micro-Inverters and ACPV Modules<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Thanks Brian. This has been a helpful thread for me. Mark Frye, thanks for kicking it off.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Best, August</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>August Goers</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Luminalt Energy Corporation</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>1320 Potrero Avenue</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>San Francisco, CA 94110</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>m: 415.559.1525</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>o: 415.641.4000</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><a href="mailto:august@luminalt.com">august@luminalt.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> <a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Brian Wiley<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 15, 2013 1:02 PM<br><b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] GEC for Micro-Inverters and ACPV Modules</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Hi August,<br><br>I maintain that the WEEB is an irreversible splice.<br>If you want to disconnect a WEEB from a structure, you must irreversibly damage the device. It cannot be reused.<br><br>Admittedly the force required to remove a WEEB is less than that required for a thermal splice, but it doesn't take much force to just cut a wire either.<br><br>I would argue that the intent of the code is to prevent inadvertent removal of the ground. You must knowingly remove a WEEB from the grounding path and if you do so in the maintenance of an array, good workmanship requires that you restore the connection.</span> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Best Regards,<br>Brian Wiley</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>On 1/15/2013 2:11 PM, August Goers wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre>Hi John,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>I definitely see your point and that is why I was somewhat questioning the<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>use of WEEBs with Enphase below. Enphases's instructions (link posted in<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>thread below) seem to indicate a support of running the continuous GEC on<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>the rack and then bonding the microinverter to the rack with WEEBs. Maybe<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>I am misinterpreting the document or perhaps Enphase has another take.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>There is no question that according to NEC 250.64(C) the GEC must be<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>continuous. In the 2008 NEC handbook section 690.42 Point of System<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Grounding Connection has an application note "Connections are to be made<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>in accordance with markings on the equipment or in the installation<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>instructions."<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>All that said, it seems like technology is leaning towards listed AC<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Modules or floating array inverters. It sounds like that removes the<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>requirement for a GEC which is great to help reduce installation costs.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>The GEC has always been a pain in the neck.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Best,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>August<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>From: <a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre>[<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>] On Behalf Of John<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Berdner<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 7:07 PM<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>To: RE-wrenches<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] GEC for Micro-Inverters and ACPV Modules<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>August:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>The WEEB or other Listed grounding means between the inverter case and the<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>structure are not "contiguous or irreversible spliced" and therefore do<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>not meet the requirements for a GEC.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>If the structure is then grounded via a bolt on lug it also is not<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>irreversible or contiguous.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>If you can unbolt something and disconnect the ground then it is not<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>contiguous or irreversibly spliced.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Both of the above are ok for EGC but not for GEC.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>GEC is a pain in the neck but the Code requirements are clear.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>If the PV array conductor (pos or neg) is bonded to ground by the inverter<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>then the inverter requires a GEC with all the related requirements - no if<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>and's or but's.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Best Regards,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>John Berdner<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>General Manager, North America<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>SolarEdge Technologies, Inc.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>3347 Gateway Boulevard, Fremont CA 94538 USA (*Please note of our new<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>address.)<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>T: 510.498.3201 ext 747<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>M: 530.277.4894<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>From: <a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre>[<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>] On Behalf Of August<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Goers<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 4:32 PM<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>To: RE-wrenches<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] GEC for Micro-Inverters and ACPV Modules<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Hi Mark,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>There have been some recent threads on this list touching on this topic.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>As far as I understand, Enphase microinvertes still require a GEC up to<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>and including the 2011 NEC. I don't know about the 2014 NEC. Enphase bonds<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>the positive DC module conductor to ground. Pages 16 and 17 of their M215<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>installation manual address grounding:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://enphase.com/wp-uploads/enphase.com/2011/06/Enphase_M215_Installatio">http://enphase.com/wp-uploads/enphase.com/2011/06/Enphase_M215_Installatio</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre>nOperation_Manual.pdf<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Products such as Solar Bridge that are listed as Alternating Current (AC)<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Modules (per NEC 690.2) don't need a Grounding Electrode Conductor (GEC)<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>as long as there are no conductors connected to ground within the product.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Solar Bridge has a good article on this:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://solarbridgetech.com/microinverters-and-ac-pv-modules-are-different/">http://solarbridgetech.com/microinverters-and-ac-pv-modules-are-different/</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>This all takes us back to using Enphase with grounding washers like WEEBs<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>for the GEC. According to what I read in their instructions (and after<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>many phone calls), it sounds like they are okay with us running the GEC on<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>the racking in #6 and then bonding the microinverters to the rack with<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>WEEBs. Seems a little strange but it's been working for us.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Good topic!<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Best,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>August<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>415.559.1525<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>From: <a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre>[<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>] On Behalf Of Mark Frye<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 3:31 PM<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>To: RE-wrenches<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Subject: [RE-wrenches] GEC for Micro-Inverters and ACPV Modules<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Does anyone have the latest on the GEC for micro-inverters/ACPV issue?<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>I know it is still in NEC 2008 and I believe 2011 with plans to address it<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>in 2014.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>I am specifically interested in the issue of GEC means continues<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>(irreversible splices) and the whole business of the DC side of these<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>devices constituting a separately derived system.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Enphase technical support is fine if the micro inverter chasis is bonded<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>to a EGC only, but they leave the lug on the chasis if you want/need to<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>build a GEC.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>SolarBridge (pre-assembled micro-inverter) seems to be devoid of a chasis<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>lug and therefore by extension does not/can not had a GEC in the system.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Exeltech (integrated micro-inverter aka. ACPV) does not seem to have a lug<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>on its chasis.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Has the industry pretty much moved to not requiring a GEC for these<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>devices and if so, how are the AHJ taking it?<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Mark Frye<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Berkeley Solar Electric Systems<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>List sponsored by Home Power magazine<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Options & settings:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>List-Archive:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>List rules & etiquette:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Check out participant bios:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>List sponsored by Home Power magazine<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Options & settings:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>List-Archive:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>List rules & etiquette:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Check out participant bios:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail and its attachments are intended only<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>for the use of the individual or entity who is the intended recipient and<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>disclosure or any type of use under applicable law. 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