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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">I found that over the years, the bottom
line correlates pretty well with total energy concerns. I got
away from DC and other super energy efficiency modes, as
reliability is even more important, and non standard pumps just
don't last near as long. For off grid, I usually spec Grundfos
SQ pumps, as they are fairly standard, but don't have a starting
surge.<br>
People won't appreciate the efficiency much when they have to
replace it in a couple of years. <br>
If they're off grid, they're main focus can't be embodied energy,
as they're probably driving a SUV long distances every day. Also,
batteries are pretty bad, when compared to a grid tie PV system.
I studied my energy usage overall, and found that off grid wasn't
saving the planet, when I was driving 20K miles/ year. I moved
into the city, fixed up an old home, and ride a bicycle more. My
overall foot print is less than building a new "efficient" home
out in the vanishing wilderness.<br>
I've tried it all, and that's just where I landed for now. I'm
currently working on an off grid PV charging system for a
customer's Chevy Volt, though, so I'm always open to new
things.....<br>
<br>
Ray Walters<br>
<br>
On 12/11/2012 10:10 PM, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:toddcory@finestplanet.com">toddcory@finestplanet.com</a> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:1355289042.89176660@webmail.finestplanet.com"
type="cite"><font face="arial" size="2">
<p style="margin:0;padding:0;">this brings up a probably off
topic subject regarding efficiency. i have always considered
efficiency and conservation to be job one... especially on off
grid systems... but with modules so inexpensive... does this
still make sense? for example, i have an off grid customer who
i suggested get a lorentz pump for his well. yes, the well
produces around the same gpm as it used to, now only using
about 15% of the power... but the cost to accomplish that was
absurd, and that money could have been invested in more
modules, which would also mean less winter generator run
time... but manufacturing <span style="font-size: 10pt;">modules</span><span
style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span><span style="font-size:
10pt;">is not light in the resource consumption department
either.</span></p>
<p style="margin:0;padding:0;"> </p>
<p style="margin:0;padding:0;">so my question is: do you other
wrenches just look at the bottom line, short term costs for
more efficient appliances compared to more modules to power
the old inefficient gear... or do you take the added step to
include embedded energy... and if so can you share the
calculation process?</p>
<p style="margin:0;padding:0;"> </p>
<p style="margin:0;padding:0;">thanks,</p>
<p style="margin:0;padding:0;"> </p>
<p style="margin:0;padding:0;">todd</p>
<p style="margin:0;padding:0;"> </p>
<p style="margin:0;padding:0;"> </p>
<p style="margin:0;padding:0;"> </p>
<p style="margin:0;padding:0;"> </p>
<p style="margin:0;padding:0;">On Tuesday, December 11, 2012
10:55am, "Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systems"
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:larry@starlightsolar.com"><larry@starlightsolar.com></a> said:<br>
<br>
</p>
<div id="SafeStyles1355288494">Why would one specify DC voltage
appliances or lighting for off grid systems today when we have
sub-buck-a-Watt PV solar power? If you have space, you can
make the added power that conventional AC appliances draw for
very low cost. It could even be argued that the cost for DC
items, wiring, distribution gear and labor will cost much more
than simply adding more PV solar and staying all AC.
<div>
<div>I don't like wasting resources and I understand old
school thinking when PV modules were very expensive, but
with high efficiency AC appliances and low cost inverters
and PV modules, does it still make any sense? Shine some
light on my thinking.
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Larry Crutcher</div>
<div>Starlight Solar
Power Systems</div>
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<div>
<div>On Dec 10, 2012, at 9:12 PM, Allan
Sindelar wrote:</div>
<br>
<div>Wrenches,<br>
We still try to encourage prospective off
grid customers to do a full load analysis as
an initial step in the system design
process. To the point:<br>
<br>
1) What is a good watt-hours/day figure to
use for a typical, modern, new, carefully
chosen, fairly large conventional AC chest
freezer, if kept in a heated indoor
location? Assume 65 degrees and seldom
opened.<br>
<br>
I will encourage that the freezer be located
in a shaded, protected outdoor location, in
order to greatly reduce winter energy
consumption, but I need a good base figure
to work with. <br>
<br>
The proposed system will most likely be
48Vnom, so a Sundanzer or similar DC freezer
is out.<br>
<br>
2) Same question for a ceiling fan, for
general slow circulation of winter heat. The
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://energystar.gov">energystar.gov</a>
list gives relative cfm efficiency but not
wattages. Is 55W still a good figure to use
as a default?<br>
<br>
<br>
I have attached a condensed <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://energystar.gov">energystar.gov</a>
list for the freezers, but wonder what other
off grid Wrenches typically use. Also, I'm
not sure that Wrenches posts allow
attachments, so this may not appear with my
message.<br>
<br>
Thank you,<br>
Allan<br>
<div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
<span style="font-family: 'Times New
Roman', Times, serif;"><strong>Allan
Sindelar</strong></span><br>
<small><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Allan@positiveenergysolar.com"><span
style="color: #000099; font-family:
'Times New Roman', Times, serif;"><span
style="text-decoration:
underline;">Allan@positiveenergysolar.com</span></span></a></small><span
style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',
Times, serif;"><br>
<span style="font-size: 10pt;">NABCEP
Certified Photovoltaic Installer<br>
NABCEP Certified Technical Sales
Professional<br>
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman
Electrician<br>
Founder and Chief Technology Officer<br>
<strong>Positive Energy, Inc.</strong><br>
3209 Richards Lane (note new address)<br>
Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507<br>
<strong>505 424-1112</strong><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.positiveenergysolar.com/"
target="_blank"><span
style="text-decoration:
underline;">www.positiveenergysolar.com</span></a></span></span>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin:0;padding:0;margin-right:
722.25pt;"><span style="font-size:
10pt;"><span style="font-family:
'Times New Roman', Times, serif;"> </span><strong><br>
</strong></span></p>
<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><br>
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