<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">You know, what baffles me - and may be
the reason for the generally-accepted view that LEDs have really
high efficiency - is why LED Christmas lights use so little
energy. I have a couple of strings over our front porch that we
never turn off, day or night, at our off grid home - in fact, I
think they have been left on for about four years now. I remember
the first time I turned them on while watching the amps scale on
our TriMet, and the reading didn't change. Kind of blew my mind...<br>
<br>
That experience has me assuming that LEDs are the way to go. Is
the difference simply the high number of lumens the tubes are
designed to produce, versus the low number for the Christmas
lights?<br>
Thanks, Allan<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-signature">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;
charset=ISO-8859-1">
<title></title>
<font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><b>Allan Sindelar</b></font><br>
<small><a href="mailto:Allan@positiveenergysolar.com"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif" color="#000099"><u>Allan@positiveenergysolar.com</u></font></a></small><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><br>
<span style="font-size: 10pt;">NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic
Installer<br>
NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional<br>
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician<br>
Founder and Chief Technology Officer<br>
<b>Positive Energy, Inc.</b><br>
3209 Richards Lane (note new address)<br>
Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507<br>
<b>505 424-1112</b><br>
<a href="http://www.positiveenergysolar.com/"
target="_blank"><u>www.positiveenergysolar.com</u></a><o:p></o:p></span></font>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right: 722.25pt;"><span
style="font-size: 10pt;"><font face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif"><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:city w:st="on"></st1:city><st1:state
w:st="on"></st1:state><st1:postalcode w:st="on"></st1:postalcode></st1:place></font><b
style=""><br>
</b></span></p>
<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><br>
</span> </div>
On 12/5/2012 4:24 PM, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:toddcory@finestplanet.com">toddcory@finestplanet.com</a> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:1354749857.06022396@webmail.finestplanet.com"
type="cite"><font face="arial" size="4">
<p style="margin:0;padding:0;">here in mount shasta woo-woo
land, there are loads of folks who hate fluorescent lighting
(never mind that they never notice fixtures with cfl's in
them). they are all smiley though about leds (go figure).</p>
<p style="margin:0;padding:0;"> </p>
<p style="margin:0;padding:0;">my experience with leds is the
lumens/watt is still no greater than a good cfl/hid lamp...
and that they are very 'dirty' with regard to rfi. try talking
on your 2 meter ham radio (or watching analog channel 6) with
one on and you will discover this the hard way. the only
advantage i see is instant on, so i have replaced my painfully
slow to warm-up cfl outdoor flood lights with leds... and try
to remember the rfi they produce.</p>
<p style="margin:0;padding:0;"> </p>
<p style="margin:0;padding:0;">no doubt eventually leds will be
THE lighting source... but imj - not yet.</p>
<p style="margin:0;padding:0;"> </p>
<p style="margin:0;padding:0;">todd</p>
<p style="margin:0;padding:0;"> </p>
<p style="margin:0;padding:0;"> </p>
<p style="margin:0;padding:0;"> </p>
<p style="margin:0;padding:0;"> </p>
<p style="margin:0;padding:0;"> </p>
<p style="margin:0;padding:0;">On Wednesday, December 5, 2012
2:51pm, "Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systems"
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:larry@starlightsolar.com"><larry@starlightsolar.com></a> said:<br>
<br>
</p>
<div id="SafeStyles1354749359">Mick,
<div>I ALWAYS go with AC lighting. The cost/watt of the extra
power to operate AC lighting is minimal compared the the
hassles you have, and will experience again, trying to go
DC. If the customer needs lighting to be always available,
go with a small dedicated inverter for the light circuit so
you can turn the big inverter(s) off until needed.</div>
<div>IMO, LED's are highly over hyped. I see people spend
hundreds of $$ putting in LED lighting only to be
disappointed with quality of light. When I tell them the
payback is 40 years or so, well I just make folks mad. <br>
<div><span style="border-collapse: separate; color: #000000;
font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal;
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2;
text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2;
word-spacing: 0px; font-size: medium;"><span
style="border-collapse: separate; color: #000000;
font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal;
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans:
2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2;
word-spacing: 0px; font-size: medium;">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word;"><span
style="border-collapse: separate; color: #000000;
font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal;
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal;
orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; font-size: medium;">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word;"><span
style="border-collapse: separate; color:
#000000; font-family: Helvetica; font-style:
normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight:
normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height:
normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto;
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing:
0px; font-size: medium;">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word;"><span
style="border-collapse: separate; color:
#000000; font-family: Helvetica;
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal;
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2;
text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space:
normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;
font-size: medium;">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word;"><span
style="border-collapse: separate;
color: #000000; font-family:
Helvetica; font-style: normal;
font-variant: normal; font-weight:
normal; letter-spacing: normal;
line-height: normal; orphans: 2;
text-indent: 0px; text-transform:
none; white-space: normal; widows: 2;
word-spacing: 0px; font-size: medium;"><span
style="border-collapse: separate;
color: #000000; font-family:
Helvetica; font-style: normal;
font-variant: normal; font-weight:
normal; letter-spacing: normal;
line-height: normal; orphans: 2;
text-indent: 0px; text-transform:
none; white-space: normal; widows:
2; word-spacing: 0px; font-size:
medium;">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word;">
<div><br>
Thank you,</div>
<div><br>
Larry Crutcher</div>
<div>Starlight Solar Power Systems</div>
</div>
</span></span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></span></div>
<br>
<div>
<div>On Dec 5, 2012, at 2:53 PM, Mick Abraham wrote:</div>
<br>
Hi, Knuckle-Busters~<br>
<br>
It's lighting retrofit time and also time for me to review
"what I thought I knew" about various lighting
technologies. <br>
<br>
+++++++++++++++++++++++++<br>
<br>
Round one of the conversion involves >>well known RV
brand<< T8 tubular fluorescent fixtures (3' long
single tube). These have 24vDC ballasts which (in various
brands) have failed way too often...and the tubes also are
failing too soon. <br>
<br>
I've mostly decided to convert the circuits to good ol'
American AC instead of DC, then I gotta select ballasts
(to stay fluor) or convert to LED. Some of the List
members handle lighting retrofits for better energy
efficiency, etc. so I need a refresher course.<br>
<br>
+++++++++++++++++++++++<br>
<br>
For AC ballasts, I'm focusing on the "Programmed Start"
type which seem less destructive to the tubes when cycled
on and off frequently. I could drive three tubes with one
ballast but then a single bulb failure sends the whole
group to black since the tubes connect in series. <br>
<br>
Is there a way to test a fluorescent tube using a
volt-ohmmeter or other non-exotic method? The cost benefit
of sharing a ballast among three fixtures goes smaller if
it's a hassle at lamp replacement time. A failed ballast
would be tricky to spot with three lamps adding more
variables. <br>
<br>
+++++++++++++++++++++++++<br>
<br>
I see there are now T8 tubular LED lamps which of course
deliver more lumens per watt and of course they are still
costly. With no ballast to buy, if I compared devoting a
$25 ballast to each fixture against converting to a $50
LED tube, "it's only double the cost" to go LED.<br>
<br>
Is LED now ready for prime time? I got on that band wagon
too early because the "white light" units were moonlight
blue, they seemed dimmer than a flashlight, color
rendition was poor, and worst of all:<br>
<br>
My early LED purchases stopped working properly >>as
should not be the case if LED is done right.<<
Admittedly, my early LED buys were--don't get me
started--designed for DC and I think the battery voltage
fluctuation may play havoc with LED and also with the DC
fluorescent ballasts. <br>
<br>
Final question: how could I be sure that new LED lights
won't "roach out" in a few years? My untrained eye has
never helped me avoid crummy tech before, so I guess it
comes down to identifying one (or more) major
manufacturer, maybe with a long warranty and a good
likelihood of staying in business. <br>
<br>
My friends and I must stop buying junk that's going to
break--even if it is all hyped up about being the "New
Latest Environmentally Correct Energy Saver". Those
>>well known RV brand<< fluorescents are a
case in point to say nothing of round two: DC driven
CFL's!<br>
<br>
Thanks & Jolliness,<br>
<br>
<div>Mick Abraham, Proprietor<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.abrahamsolar.com/" target="_blank">www.abrahamsolar.com</a><br>
<br>
Voice: 970-731-4675</div>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
List sponsored by Home Power magazine<br>
<br>
List Address: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
Options & settings:<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
List-Archive:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
List rules & etiquette:<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br>
<br>
Check out participant bios:<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</font><br>
<br>
<br>
Sent from Finest Planet WebMail.<br>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Home Power magazine
List Address: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>
Options & settings:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a>
List-Archive: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a>
List rules & etiquette:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a>
Check out participant bios:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>