Yes, thermal is convenient, but in my region, it makes no sense as you can heat the water from the sun without any pv involved.<div>Anyone who is going to install solar pv already has solar thermal.</div><div><br></div><div>
<br></div><div>I have looked at ice production, but that would not require diversion. In that case, there was so much excess that they would schedule the manufacture of ice at the weekends to use up the power.</div><div>
<br></div><div>The biggest issue is that it is not guaranteed. You might have cloudy days where there is no excess, so it needs to be non-critical usage.</div><div>Something like the production of hydrogen for a fuel cell. In fact that will likely be a real solution in the new future.</div>
<div><br></div><div>I wrote a blog post on this subject some time ago</div><div><a href="http://caribbeanrenewable.blogspot.com/2012/04/what-would-you-do-with-free-electricity.html">http://caribbeanrenewable.blogspot.com/2012/04/what-would-you-do-with-free-electricity.html</a></div>
<div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 10:40 PM, Carl Emerson <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:Carl@solarking.net.nz" target="_blank">Carl@solarking.net.nz</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div lang="EN-GB" link="blue" vlink="blue">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">Hi Chris,<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">The most obvious use would be to heat a
thermal store.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">This is a resistive load and very easy to
control.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">I also have a client who would like to use
it for irrigation loads.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">So what is the device you have in mind?<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-NZ" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">Carl Emerson<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-NZ" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">Free Power Co.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-NZ" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">Land line <a href="tel:%2B64%209%20473%204286" value="+6494734286" target="_blank">+64 9 473 4286</a></span></font><font color="blue"><span lang="EN-NZ" style="color:blue"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-NZ" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">Mobile <a href="tel:%2B64%2022%20630%209689" value="+64226309689" target="_blank">+64 22 630 9689</a></span></font><font color="blue"><span lang="EN-NZ" style="color:blue"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-NZ" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">Email
<a href="mailto:emerson@freepower.co.nz" target="_blank">emerson@freepower.co.nz</a><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-NZ" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">Web
<a href="http://www.freepower.co.nz" target="_blank">www.freepower.co.nz</a><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<div>
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</span></font></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b><font face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma">
<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>] <b><span style="font-weight:bold">On Behalf Of </span></b>Chris Mason<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> 23 October 2012 2:03 p.m.<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> RE-wrenches<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [RE-wrenches] AC
(only) Diversion</span></font><span lang="EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">This is something I have pondered a lot as the export tariff here is
zero. But there is a fundamental flaw in your logic. You are asking
what device would do this, that's an easy answer. Your real problem is what
would you use it for. What can this electricity be used for that is worth not
getting 10c per KWh for it.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Answer that and the
device will be easy.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 8:12 PM, Carl Emerson <<a href="mailto:Carl@solarking.net.nz" target="_blank">Carl@solarking.net.nz</a>>
wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<div link="blue" vlink="blue">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">Hi There,</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue"> </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">Since no-one has mentioned an ‘off the shelf’ product
to achieve AC diversion for a grid-tied system, I would like to look at
developing one.</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue"> </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">I am prepared to put my ideas into the ring.</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue"> </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">This could be a collaborative effort, are there others who would
like to participate in this ?</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue"> </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">If so please contact me off list…</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue"> </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial">Regards<br>
Carl Emerson</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial">Freepower Co.</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial">Auckland NZ</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
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<hr size="2" width="100%" align="center">
</span></font></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b><font face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma"> <a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>] <b><span style="font-weight:bold">On Behalf Of </span></b>Carl Emerson<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> 16 October 2012 1:36 p.m.<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> 'RE-wrenches'<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> [RE-wrenches] FW: AC
(only) Diversion</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">Hi there,</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue"> </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">Just to clarify, we are talking about a battery-less grid tie
system.</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue"> </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">We want to have the choice to divert the AC available for export to
an AC load for example a pump or a thermal store.</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue"> </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">The reason for this is that the tariff for export may be only 10c
and the unit cost to import 20c. (net-metering not available)</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue"> </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">Further to this, the tariff changes depending on the time of day.</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue"> </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">Financially it is often a better option to use the excess power
locally on site rather than to sell back to the grid.</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue"> </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">Is there an off the shelf unit that will sense when the generated
power exceeds the loads and can divert the power that would have been exported
to a local load?</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue"> </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">I have figured out a way to do this cheaply but need to know if I
am reinventing the wheel…</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue"> </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-NZ" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">Carl Emerson</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-NZ" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">Free Power Co.</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-NZ" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">Land line <a href="tel:%2B64%209%20473%204286" value="+6494734286" target="_blank">+64 9 473 4286</a></span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-NZ" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">Mobile <a href="tel:%2B64%2022%20630%209689" value="+64226309689" target="_blank">+64 22 630 9689</a></span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-NZ" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">Email <a href="mailto:emerson@freepower.co.nz" target="_blank">emerson@freepower.co.nz</a></span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-NZ" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">Web <a href="http://www.freepower.co.nz" target="_blank">www.freepower.co.nz</a></span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue"> </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt">
<hr size="2" width="100%" align="center">
</span></font></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b><font face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma"> <a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>] <b><span style="font-weight:bold">On Behalf Of </span></b>Drake<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> 16 October 2012 1:04 a.m.<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> RE-wrenches<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [RE-wrenches] AC
(only) Diversion</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">You could use
Morning Star relay driver to control the AC dump load. I have one for my
system, but have not yet installed it, but have programmed it on my
computer. If it works as designed, it should be perfect in conjunction
with a relay. <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
At 04:42 AM 10/14/2012, you wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:blue">Hi there,<br>
<br>
Is there an off the shelf low cost product that will divert exported
energy to a load?<br>
<br>
I have put thought into this and have a simple solution but need to know if it
is worth while marketing it.<br>
<br>
<br>
Carl Emerson<br>
Free Power Co.<br>
Land line <a href="tel:%2B64%209%20473%204286" value="+6494734286" target="_blank">+64 9 473 4286</a><br>
Mobile <a href="tel:%2B64%2022%20630%209689" value="+64226309689" target="_blank">+64 22 630 9689</a><br>
Email <a href="mailto:emerson@freepower.co.nz" target="_blank">emerson@freepower.co.nz</a><br>
Web <a href="http://www.freepower.co.nz/" target="_blank">www.freepower.co.nz</a><br>
</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:blue">
<hr size="2" width="100%" align="center">
</span></font></div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><font face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b><font face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma"> <a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>
[<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">
mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>] <b><span style="font-weight:bold">On Behalf Of </span></b>Chris Mason<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> 13 October 2012 2:17 p.m.<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> RE-wrenches<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [RE-wrenches] AC
(only) Diversion<br>
</span></font> <br>
It is called a reverse current relay, use it to to run on a water heating
contactor when there is current to the grid.<br>
This is a problem I have struggled with for ages. We do not get credit for export
so I have been looking for a good use for free electricity, have not found one
yet.<br>
On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 3:36 PM, Nathan Stumpff <<a href="mailto:Nathan@arcticsun-llc.com" target="_blank">Nathan@arcticsun-llc.com</a>
> wrote:<br>
Wrenches,<br>
<br>
We are working on the design for a system where we will be using grid-tied wind
and solar but will not be able to net-meter the project (we can interconnect
but the meter only runs one way.) Anything we use on site is worth 100%, any
production that goes back to the grid is lost forever to the customer. What we
would like to do is monitor all solar and wind production, monitor all usage,
and then be able to dump every watt-hour of over production as heat, there is
plenty of (thermal) storage capacity.<br>
<br>
If this were a battery based system I know how I would approach this and what
equipment I would spec, but so far I am having a hard time coming up with
a solution. Anyone have any suggestions for products or strategies in
this case? Something like an eGauge with programmable PWM relay outputs?<br>
<br>
Any thoughts or suggestions are most appreciated,<br>
-Nathan<br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
Nathan J. Stumpff - Arctic Sun, LLC<br>
NABCEP Certified PV Installer #091209-175<br>
NABCEP Certified Solar Heating Installer #032412-14<br>
<a href="mailto:nathan@arcticsun-llc.com" target="_blank">nathan@arcticsun-llc.com</a><br>
Office: <a href="tel:907%2F457-1297" target="_blank">907/457-1297</a><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">-- <br>
Chris Mason<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">President, Comet Systems Ltd<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Cell: <a href="tel:264.235.5670" value="+12642355670" target="_blank">264.235.5670</a><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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Cell: 264.235.5670</div><div>Skype: netconcepts</div><br>
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