<html><body><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000; font-size:10pt;"><div><span><div><span>Funny, We thought we had a plan<span> together<span id="GD__CURSOR"></span></span> to deal with this kind of thing (Throw out a bigger # or just say no), only to find folks getting umm.. more creative. I'm dealing with a customer at present who contracted with us for a 5k grid tie.. or more appropriately, used us to secure a state incentive. <span>Coming from the off grid world, I appreciate the value of getting the customer involved. So I didn't think too much of it<span id="GD__CURSOR"> </span></span>when he insisted that he be involved throughout the entire process<span><span><span id="GD__CURSOR">. Soon after the estimate was excepted, he</span></span><span id="GD__CURSOR"> demanded</span></span> total over sight including access to parts lists, suppliers, costs, detailed block diagrams, wire calcs, layout etc). I started getting nervous when he insisted that all equipment be shipped directly to him. </span></div><div><span><br></span></div><div><span>When we rolled up on site (within 3 days of equipment delivery), we found much of the work we based our estimate on already completed. including: <span><span>the<span> underground feed</span><span id="GD__CURSOR"> </span></span>and subpanel upgrade,<span id="GD__CURSOR"></span></span> <span><span id="GD__CURSOR"></span></span> the meter can, conduit runs and much of the racking (we found out later that few of the roof penetrations actually hit rafter). We also found a two person crew eager to "Help" (one an unemployed electrician apprentice). we wired the racks, hung the panels and the inverter and were pretty much ushered out of there in just over eight hours. So now (you guessed it) he's contesting everything.. on site time, personnel, connector prices, wire runs.. <span>Just about everything.<span id="GD__CURSOR"> </span></span>By his reckoning, we owe him about a third of his initial deposit back. In the estimate, we originally quoted "labor", but didn't specify on site, design, permitting / documentation etc. Additionally, seems now the AHJ has found a problem with the sub feed / meter connections (yes, which I never got a chance to see). To complicate things, seems this guy has personal connections in the state legislature (a brother I think), and has no problem "making a few calls". <br> </span></div><div><span><br></span></div><div><span>Seems construction has pretty much flatlined in this area. Folks are getting hungry. Renewables are about the only thing moving. (Besides Govt, Banking and Insurance.. and fast food). Yes, the more talented folks are still finding work, but many are forced to get "creative". We're also seeing a lot of Big Down Country Money Smoozing it's way in.. with cookie cutter systems and temporary workers.. but that's another issue. <span>I just want this thing behind us, but resent being set up like this. We're not totally taking a bath on this project (at this point anyway), but our time would definitely be better spent elsewhere... <span id="GD__CURSOR"> </span></span><span> Yes, I realize this thread should probably be on another list someplace.<span id="GD__CURSOR"> </span></span> I just wanted to chime in.. Some Folks can sure be Slimey.<br></span></div><div><span><br></span></div><div><span>db</span></div><span id="GD__CURSOR"> </span></span><br></div><div><br></div><div><br>Dan Brown<br>Foxfire Energy Corp.<br>Renewable Energy Systems<br>(802)-483-2564<br><a target="_blank" href="http://www.Foxfire-Energy.com">www.Foxfire-Energy.com</a><br>NABCEP #092907-44</div><div><br><br></div><blockquote id="replyBlockquote" webmail="1" style="border-left: 2px solid blue; margin-left: 8px; padding-left: 8px; font-size:10pt; color:black; font-family:verdana;"> <div id="wmQuoteWrapper"> -------- Original Message --------<br> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Combating requests for itemized PV pricing<br> From: Chris Mason <<a target="_blank" href="mailto:cometenergysystems@gmail.com">cometenergysystems@gmail.com</a>><br> Date: Sat, August 18, 2012 3:00 pm<br> To: RE-wrenches <<a target="_blank" href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>><br> <br> Jason, <div>Any customer is entitled to a Bill of Materials prior to signing a contract to ensure that they get the make and model and quantity that was quoted, but if they request an All-Risk Lump Sum price, they are not entitled to know what each component costs. If they want to do it based on time and materials, then they take all the risks, and I am pretty sure they don't want that.</div> <div>Most people who request itemized costed quotes are bid-shopping, and you don't want them as customers. It's also possible they just think they are being smart, so slapping them down now will set them straight and lay the ground rules. Then either you continue in a good working relationship or they walk away.</div> <div><br></div> <hr>_______________________________________________<br> List sponsored by Home Power magazine<br> <br> List Address: <a target="_blank" href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br> <br> Options & settings:<br> <a target="_blank" href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br> <br> List-Archive: <a target="_blank" href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br> <br> List rules & etiquette:<br> <a target="_blank" href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br> <br> Check out participant bios:<br> <a target="_blank" href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><br> <br> </div> </blockquote></span></body></html>