<html><body><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000; font-size:10pt;"><div>Sorry Larry, yes, I was hoping to start a new thread, I just used your last post to connect. db<br></div><div><br></div><div><br>Dan Brown<br>Foxfire Energy Corp.<br>Renewable Energy Systems<br>(802)-483-2564<br><a href="http://www.Foxfire-Energy.com">www.Foxfire-Energy.com</a><br>NABCEP #092907-44</div><div><br><br></div>
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-------- Original Message --------<br>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] De-Sulphators. The last word?<br>
From: "Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systems"<br>
<<a href="mailto:larry@starlightsolar.com">larry@starlightsolar.com</a>><br>
Date: Mon, May 28, 2012 1:17 pm<br>
To: RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>><br>
<br>
Dan,<div><br></div><div>I'm perplexed. Where was anything mentioned about de-sulphators? Where was anyone "slammed"? What in the world are you talking about? Perhaps you meant to reply to someone else's thread. BTW, I do not recommend a desulfator or pulser be installed on batteries.</div><div><br></div><div>I'll reiterate my points:</div><div>1. KC-120's from a certain production era fail and can be warranted.</div><div>2. Applying enough load will cause full current to flow from a PV array.</div><div>3. Sulfated batteries have high resistance causing a quick rise in voltage.</div><div><br></div><div>I welcome your response but please reply off list.</div><div><br></div><div>Respectfully yours,</div><div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div> <span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div>Larry</div></div></span></span></div></span></div></span></span> </div> <br><div><div>On May 28, 2012, at 6:42 AM, <<a target="_blank" href="mailto:dan@foxfire-energy.com">dan@foxfire-energy.com</a>> <<a target="_blank" href="mailto:dan@foxfire-energy.com">dan@foxfire-energy.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000; font-size:10pt;"><div>Seems I have a stalwart "Battery Specialist" in the neighborhood still convincing folks that de sulphators are the smartest thing since sliced bread (And slamming anyone who disagrees). In my experience, sparklers have little to no effect on battery longevity and in most cases add unlisted, hazardous and unnecessary wiring devices to a potentially hazardous environment. Is tar and feathering still an acceptable means of dispute resolution.. or am I totally missing something? tks db<br></div><div><br>Dan Brown<br>Foxfire Energy Corp.<br>Renewable Energy Systems<br>(802)-483-2564<br><a target="_blank" href="http://www.Foxfire-Energy.com/">www.Foxfire-Energy.com</a><br>NABCEP #092907-44</div><div><br><br></div> <blockquote id="replyBlockquote" webmail="1" style="border-left-width: 2px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: blue; margin-left: 8px; padding-left: 8px; font-size: 10pt; color: black; font-family: verdana; position: static; z-index: auto; "> <div id="wmQuoteWrapper"> -------- Original Message --------<br> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Troubleshooting Off-grid PV<br> From: "Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systems"<br> <<a target="_blank" href="mailto:larry@starlightsolar.com">larry@starlightsolar.com</a>><br> Date: Sun, May 27, 2012 7:37 pm<br> To: RE-wrenches <<a target="_blank" href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>><br> <br> Hi Eric,<div><br></div><div>Check the dates on the KC-120 module label. If any were manufactured between January 1999 and December 2002, they have or will fail. We have been replacing these modules for over 8 years now. There was a defective solder joint during manufacture. Kyocera will still replace them under warranty even though they have no legal requirement to do so. They will ship you remanufactured 120's and pay for return shipping. Contact Kyocera about the procedure. </div><div><br></div><div>If the batteries are sulfated, they will not produce the load necessary to drive the current high. Capacity has nothing to do with it; internal resistance does. You can test the array by pulling the voltage down (turn on some big loads) at solar noon. This will force the controller into bulk and reveal the maximum current the array can produce. I think you have two problems here. With bad modules, you may not see much.</div><div><br></div><div>It is typical for a controller to transition to float very early in the charge cycle if the battery is sulfated. Look for a fast rise in voltage in the morning. This is an indicator of sulfated battery. A healthy battery will slowly climb in voltage.</div><div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div> <span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div>Let me k now if you need more understanding about batteries, charging and why MOST of them never see old age. It's my speciality.</div><div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">Larry Crutcher</div><div>Starlight Solar Power Systems</div></div></span></span><div>(928) 342-9103</div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><u><br></u></div></div></span></span></div></span></div></span></span> </div></div></div> </blockquote></span></div></div><br></div><hr>_______________________________________________<br>
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