Having been a Carpenter before becoming an electrician, and then working with PV, I see the need for licencing of some sort. You can all imagine the "summer carpenters" I had to deal with. Without a licensed trade like plumbers and electricians in MN, anyone can do the work. To become a licensed electrician in MN, you need 10,000 hours of verified work experience (apprenticeship) before you can even sit for the test. This makes our license reciprocal with, I believe, any state in the USA. Last time I checked, if you came from say, Mississippi, you would need to take our state electrical test to have your licence be accepted here in MN (I just picked Mississippi). Not every licensed electrician should be left alone to wire, let alone run the electrical department at Home Depot! There are slackers in all trades. Well maybe not perfect, to me, NABCEP offers some kind of verifiable work experience and classroom time. <div>
<br></div><div>I am proud of both my state electrical licence and my NABCEP Certs. Just my Iron Range opinion.....<div><br></div><div>I do like the idea of an off-grid and "utility" cert as well.....</div><div>
<br></div><div><br></div><div>Jesse<br><div><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 7:09 PM, Tom Duffy <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:Tom@thesolar.biz" target="_blank">Tom@thesolar.biz</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial Rounded MT Bold","sans-serif"">Certification is just a business, whether it’s for computer Techs or Solar Installers, and they seem to be entities unto themselves. I have heard all the arguments
for certs, but like you said some folks don’t test well but are knowledgeable others test well but are clueless as to practical applications.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial Rounded MT Bold","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial Rounded MT Bold","sans-serif"">Back a decade or so ago I taught Computer Tech certification (A+) at our local university. In one class that I taught I had 23 network admins (Employed as such)
and managing large networks. Only three tested and one passed. The point is all were capable network admins.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial Rounded MT Bold","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial Rounded MT Bold","sans-serif"">The real question is… how does one prove their expertise? Especially to the general public. I have seen some real nightmarish off grid systems setup by NABCEP installers
and Non-NABCEP as well. It is a problem and though I don’t believe in certification, I also don’t have an alternative suggestion either. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Arial Rounded MT Bold","sans-serif";color:#984806"><u></u> <u></u></span></b></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial Rounded MT Bold","sans-serif"">Kind Regards<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial Rounded MT Bold","sans-serif";color:#009900"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial Rounded MT Bold","sans-serif"">Tom Duffy<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial Rounded MT Bold","sans-serif";color:#009900">Senior Solar Design Engineer<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial Rounded MT Bold","sans-serif";color:#984806"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial Rounded MT Bold","sans-serif";color:#009900">Toll Free <a href="tel:888-895-8179" value="+18888958179" target="_blank">888-895-8179</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial Rounded MT Bold","sans-serif";color:#009900"><a href="mailto:tom@thesolar.biz" target="_blank">tom@thesolar.biz</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial Rounded MT Bold","sans-serif";color:#984806">For: Customer Service and Accounting
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial Rounded MT Bold","sans-serif";color:#984806">Off Grid sales
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</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Arial Rounded MT Bold","sans-serif";color:#984806"><u></u> <u></u></span></b></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> <a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Dana<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 24, 2012 12:04 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'RE-wrenches'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [RE-wrenches] NABCEP<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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</div><div><div class="h5">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif"">NABCEP has been a strangely quiet subject on this forum. FYI - I checked with our honorable moderator prior to posting this.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif"">If we are attempting to expand the field of “certified“ installer and designers why is NABCEP run the way it is?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif"">Getting the NABCEP cert and living in w.CO has been a virtual nightmare & living where I do and having to travel 7 hours each way, stay in a hotel etc, this is a joke. I may be
in the minority but point to make here. Beyond that I became a wrench because I do not test well [avoided a 4 year degree] yet I can outline a schematic for electrical or plumbing in my head and build it the first time correctly.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif"">The test schedule and availability - NABCEP needs to open up to local proctoring, libraries, schools, etc.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif"">2 tests a Year? Electricians can re- test 24 or 48 hours? later and use a variety of resources. Why can we not?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif"">When an electrician tests they get their results as they walk out of the test room. Why do we have to wait 6 weeks?
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif"">The NEC book is the only reference material at the test when is not doing a trade about knowing your resources and utilizing them? From what I understand any number of professions
and trades get to use several resource books. You would think we were going to be secret agents or the like.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif"">I have done off grid for 24 years. Most NABCEP folk who are GT only have not a clue as to battery based design and should not be allowed to do the same.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif"">I am "certified" and probably very competent up to 50KW would be just fine but 100KW or 1MW? This is probably not a brilliant idea without a backup coach.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif"">Questions on 3 phase on the test? I would ask my licensed master electrician yet we are asked several questions on 3 phase. I have asked masters and they have had to go look up
the answer.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif"">I would suggest a basic GT cert up to 50KW with a supplemental for >50kw and a separate adder for off grid. Tests every 2 month or on a scheduled basis with you local librarian<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif"">I fly my NABCEP cert in the bathroom and upside down. It is in distress, stinks, and needs help. The re-wrenches is strangely silent on this much damaged product called certification.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif"">I see some major issues and would like to start a discussion about how it is managed.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif"">I think it needs rethinking.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif"">Thanks for considering & your opinion?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif"">Dana Orzel - Great Solar Works, Inc - E -
<b><a href="mailto:dana@solarwork.com" target="_blank">dana@solarwork.com</a></b> - V <b><a href="tel:970.626.5253" value="+19706265253" target="_blank">970.626.5253</a></b><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif"">F - <a href="tel:970.626.4140" value="+19706264140" target="_blank">970.626.4140</a> C - <a href="tel:970.209.4076" value="+19702094076" target="_blank">970.209.4076</a> web -
<a href="http://www.solarwork.com" target="_blank">www.solarwork.com</a> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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