I think he has off grid inverters that aren't capable of feeding the grid so there is no reason not to use the power unless he wants to purchase new inverters.<br><br>David Lauzon<br>Northern Arizona Wind and Sun Phone-928-526-8017 / 800-383-0195 Fax-928-527-0729 <br>Website-<a href="http://www.solar-electric.com">http://www.solar-electric.com</a><br><br><div id="htc_header" style="">----- Reply message -----<br>From: toddcory@finestplanet.com<br>To: "RE-wrenches" <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org><br>Subject: [RE-wrenches] Off-Grid to Grid-Connected -essential loads<br>Date: Sat, May 5, 2012 1:28 pm<br><br></div><br><font face="arial" size="4"><p style="margin:0;padding:0;">i am not sure what the advantage is of running in HBX mode? why not simply grid-tie this where any surplus power (over local use) gets sold to the grid?</p>
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<p style="margin:0;padding:0;">also the vfx's can be sent into ob for upgrading to gvfxs. no need to buy new inverters.</p>
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<p style="margin:0;padding:0;">todd</p>
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<p style="margin:0;padding:0;">On Saturday, May 5, 2012 12:36pm, "benn kilburn" <benn@daystarsolar.ca> said:<br /><br /></p>
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<div dir="ltr">Dan,</div>
<div dir="ltr">I agree, the batteries are a major factor here and as usual much can get lost in translation when details are left out. My bad, I'll try to bridge the gap a bit...
<div>What we have here is a complete up and running off-grid system;</div>
<div>-the batteries are Surrette 2YS31P (2V each x 24 = 48V system) ~one year old</div>
<div>-there are two FM80's and a FM60 with a combined 8435 W of PV</div>
<div>-currently there are two VFX3648's (series stack) and there are two GVFX3648's waiting to be swapped in when the grid connection happens.</div>
<div>-back-up 12kW gen</div>
<div>Welcoming neighbours into the area who are not as open to the limits and responsibilities of off-grid living, this system owner has agreed to help with the cost of bringing the grid into the area.</div>
<div>So working with the set-up we have, what i'm thinking (hoping) is that the system will continue to run off the batteries and the PV will continue to keep the batteries full and running all the loads and the inverters will be set to only "buy" from the grid when the PV is not able to maintain a predetermined battery voltage. Essentially the grid will become the "back-up generator", and the existing back-up gen will not be seeing any action unless there is no sun and the grid is down.</div>
<div>It appears that this is programmable via the HBX mode from the Mate. Am i missing any critical points here?</div>
<div>Currently the main distribution panelboard, which feeds everything (the house and shop loads) is supplied from the AC-Out bus in the Outback FW-AC, which is supplied from the VFXs output and when in by-pass mode, from the generator, and since the (battery) system was originally designed to supply all the loads I see no reason/purpose to dedicate certain loads to a separate "essential loads" panelboard, which is what i was getting at with my original post.</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>benn</div>
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From: dan@foxfire-energy.com<br />To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org<br />Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 18:23:33 -0700<br />Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-Grid to Grid-Connected -essential loads<br /><br /><span style="font-family: Verdana; color: #000000; font-size: 10pt;">
<div>IMHO, the batteries are the real skeleton in the closet here. Sooner or later they're gonna poop. at 2400 Ah you're likely running a multi string set up, so it's likely someone's number is already on the board. Even if you set the FX down to a trickle charge or use some kind of contactor to fake the FX into thinking the grid is really a gen set, sooner or later the batteries will fail. Better to design for it now.. Besides, Rather than regulating solar input to protect batteries, You're better off selling (Storing) power on the grid. Depending on the age of the batteries or the competence of the operator (Home Owner), I'd either swap out the FXs for a GVFX (and down size the batteries when they puke), or loose the current setup all together and go for a batteryless Grid Tie inverter. (and maybe keep the current setup as a whole house UPS.. until the batteries poop). Again, depending on the customer, you might milk these batteries by setting up individual strings on an isolation switch (like in the marine industry), at least this way you can referee. Good Luck. db</div>
<div><br />Dan Brown<br />Foxfire Energy Corp.<br />Renewable Energy Systems<br />(802)-483-2564<br /><a href="http://www..Foxfire-Energy.com" target="_blank">www.Foxfire-Energy.com</a><br />NABCEP #092907-44</div>
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<div id="ecxwmQuoteWrapper">-------- Original Message --------<br /> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Off-Grid to Grid-Connected -essential loads<br /> From: benn kilburn <<a href="mailto:benn@daystarsolar.ca">benn@daystarsolar.ca</a>><br /> Date: Fri, May 04, 2012 5:08 pm<br /> To: Wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>><br /><br />
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<div dir="ltr">Wrenches,
<div><span class="ecx">I have an off-grid client who is going to be connecting to the grid. Since the system </span>(~9 kW of PV and ~2400 Ah battery) <span class="ecx">is already well suited for the loads, I am wondering about the necessity of an essential loads panelboard. I'm not sure if I see the need since the battery is already sized for all the existing loads.</span></div>
<div><span class="ecx"><br /></span></div>
<div><span class="ecx">The intent is to continue running all the loads from the battery and have the (Outback) settings so that the grid is only used when the PV isn't able to maintain a particular battery voltage setting. </span></div>
<div><span class="ecx"><br /></span></div>
<div>Comments, insights into this type of set-up?</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>benn</div>
<div>
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