<html><body><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000; font-size:10pt;"><div>Hey Howie:</div><div> Seems I got to mess with a Pipe Tower Kit a few years ago. I don't remember the details, but I doubt the tower was more than 40'. As I recall, we just took it down. but even that was oh my god heavy. Seems to me there was some real design flaws happening. I'd definitely fly your tower empty for openers.. maybe even bounce it around a little. I'd start a pool on where the thing folds and how it lands. (Just to keep folks head in the game -- If it doesn't fold, everyone drinks).. sounds like a good time. good luck. db<br></div><div><br>Dan Brown<br>Foxfire Energy Corp.<br>Renewable Energy Systems<br>(802)-483-2564<br><a href="http://www.Foxfire-Energy.com">www.Foxfire-Energy.com</a><br>NABCEP #092907-44</div><div><br><br></div>
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-------- Original Message --------<br>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Skystream tower heights<br>
From: "Howie Michaelson" <<a href="mailto:howie@suncatchervt.com">howie@suncatchervt.com</a>><br>
Date: Mon, April 30, 2012 11:46 am<br>
To: "RE-wrenches" <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>><br>
<br>
Ross, et al.,<br>
<br>
Thanks all for the feedback and info. I was out of town so I haven't<br>
gotten back to this sooner. I appreciate the insight and suggestions.<br>
<br>
FYI, this install is being done with a new, but out-of-warranty Skystream<br>
turbine. My brother-in-law is right on the Nova Soctia coast and will be<br>
replacing the appropriate internal parts with SS parts. He will be<br>
placing it on a 100' tower built from 5.5" Sch40, 40' poles threaded<br>
together and guyed to cement piers - I'd be interested in having<br>
recommendations from SWWP on the efficacy of the tower design, if that is<br>
possible. I will help with the installation, having done many Bergey<br>
installations, but never a Skystream. I have done lots of AC coupled<br>
solar systems, so I understand that, but will study up on the Skystream<br>
equipment. I relate all this just so people understand that this is not<br>
being installed in an unthoughtful fashion. I do understand SWWP's desire<br>
to train the installers of their turbines, not an unreasonable plan.<br>
<br>
I really appreciate Ross's helpful, light-hearted responses to list<br>
communication that could have been taken as critical, although not<br>
necessarily inaccurate. I would be interested in looking closer at the<br>
Skystream, but I have gotten out of the wind installation business, mostly<br>
because there are too many people looking to install in inappropriate<br>
locations, and not enough opportunities for well sited wind around here.<br>
<br>
Howie<br>
-- <br>
Howie Michaelson<br>
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™<br>
<br>
Catamount Solar, LLC<br>
Renewable Energy Systems Sales and Service<br>
VT Solar Electric & Hot Water Incentive Partner<br>
<a href="http://www.CatamountSolar.com">http://www.CatamountSolar.com</a><br>
802-272-0004<br>
<br>
<br>
On Sun, April 29, 2012 7:31 pm, Ross Taylor wrote:<br>
> Hi Dan, Ian, and the others;<br>
><br>
> Your points are valid and, Ian, thank goodness we offer a tower for your<br>
> hypothetical "living under the tundra" situation. :-)<br>
><br>
> In seriousness, I'm new to RE-Wrenches and I joined in response to one<br>
> recent inquiry which was forwarded to me outside the list (that Sunforce<br>
> question). As a new member, and a rep for a manufacturer, I am trying to<br>
> tread lightly and respect the requests of the list moderator by not being<br>
> seen as promoting our product or clogging the list. So, I'll back out<br>
> after this and will continue to monitor and respond to specific questions<br>
> about our products. The tower height question and issue is valid, but<br>
> I'll<br>
> let you wage that internally. But let me leave a few parting thoughts:<br>
><br>
> 1) Despite working for one manufacturer, I've installed and worked on<br>
> several brands and I am with you all in wanting to meet the customer's end<br>
> needs and expectations. I'm also disgusted by the poor installations I've<br>
> seen. I, too, have a good installation/bad installation presentation and<br>
> there are lots of ours in both groups. And I know some members of this<br>
> group have received some terrible installations photos of Skystream<br>
> systems<br>
> which I've sent them. I want to promote good installations, not crummy<br>
> ones.<br>
><br>
> 2) I'll respectfully suggest (and then duck!) that "the 30 foot rule" is a<br>
> guide and is no more universally valid than "the 20 foot rule". If both<br>
> cases, it implies an if-then certainty which doesn't take into account the<br>
> variety of site conditions. Any who have attended my class will know that<br>
> I discuss this and show that they're a useful guide, but there are lots of<br>
> locations where a "60 foot rule" would be better. If you're looking at<br>
> turbulence extending maybe 2X the height of an object and that object is<br>
> 50-60 feet tall, then 30 feet may not be enough. I'm trying to teach<br>
> proper<br>
> site evaluation, not "use this tower or this rule."<br>
><br>
> 3) We offer a 34-foot tower because, in some locations, it provides a good<br>
> cost of energy solution. But, and this is a big and clear but, it is NOT<br>
> a<br>
> good option in any but some flat, uninterrupted, wide open areas. Those<br>
> areas do exist, however, with enough frequency that our dealers demanded<br>
> it<br>
> as an option. In any but those isolated cases, though, a taller tower is<br>
> required.<br>
><br>
> 4) We offer towers up to 70 feet in height. That's not just monopole<br>
> towers - we have guyed towers as well. So, even from us, nobody's stuck<br>
> with a monopole in a situation where a guyed tower is better. And, to<br>
> clarify/correct a statement made, our warranty is NOT conditioned upon<br>
> using our towers. We are trying prevent installations on under-engineered<br>
> towers which aren't designed to take into account dynamic forces of a wind<br>
> turbine. We've seen failures of towers which were sourced cheaply and<br>
> which were not designed to support a wind turbine. But, any dealer is<br>
> free<br>
> to buy a turbine from us and a 120-foot guyed lattice tower of their<br>
> choice. The "up to 70 foot" tower limitation is just the limit of towers<br>
> we<br>
> sell ourselves, at least now. But that doesn't now, nor has it ever<br>
> meant,<br>
> that an installer can't use the properly engineered tower of their choice<br>
> if they have a need to go taller - and some do, indeed. Go for it, with<br>
> our<br>
> blessings (and full warranty coverage)!<br>
><br>
> 5) And, one last thought. We're not talking about a $50,000 turbine here.<br>
> Closer to $5K. If you work the numbers, you might be surprised to find<br>
> that it makes more sense to put in two turbines on 45-foot towers than one<br>
> on a 120-foot tower. IF the terrain, vegetation, structures and other<br>
> turbulence sources make that feasible. And, if course, there are also<br>
> places where installing a wind turbine doesn't make economic sense - or<br>
> common sense - and in those cases we'd rather say, "thanks but no thanks."<br>
> Which brings us back to the original poster's question. And the point<br>
> where I'll drop back into the shadows in respect for the wishes of the<br>
> list<br>
> mod.<br>
><br>
> Best wishes all and, if you have specific product or training questions,<br>
> I'll keep watching and helping as I can.<br>
><br>
> Respectfully,<br>
><br>
> Ross<br>
> Training Manager - Southwest Windpower<br>
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