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    On 4/18/2012 4:41 PM, Darryl Thayer wrote:
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:1334792489.52885.YahooMailNeo@web39301.mail.mud.yahoo.com"
      type="cite">
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        <div><span>Bob do you know of a 4x80 GFDI breaker?  Midnight has
            a 2X80 correct? <br>
          </span></div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <br>
    No, but we have a 1 X 63 amp /  300 volt GFP that can be configured
    as 2 X 63 amp GFP. <br>
    <br>
    boB<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:1334792489.52885.YahooMailNeo@web39301.mail.mud.yahoo.com"
      type="cite">
      <div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:arial,
        helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12pt">
        <div><span>and Outback has a 2X80   </span></div>
        <div><span>Wire size use the tap rule, 10 feet 10% of wire size.
             </span></div>
        <div><br>
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            <div dir="ltr"> <font face="Arial" size="2"> <b><span
                    style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b>
                <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:boB@midnitesolar.com">"boB@midnitesolar.com"</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:boB@midnitesolar.com"><boB@midnitesolar.com></a><br>
                <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b>
                RE-wrenches <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"><re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org></a> <br>
                <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b>
                Wednesday, April 18, 2012 5:08 PM<br>
                <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b>
                Re: [RE-wrenches] GFP and multiple charge controllers<br>
              </font> </div>
            <br>
            <div id="yiv406557911">
              <div> <font face="Courier New, Courier, monospace"><br>
                  A lot of good replies have come by here but here goes
                  another one...<br>
                  <br>
                  The GFP cannot be used for dual purpose as a
                  disconnect for battery<br>
                  or PV input and y</font><font face="Courier New,
                  Courier, monospace"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73,
                    125);"><font color="#330033">ou</font> <font
                      color="#330033">are</font> <font color="#330033">not

                      allowed</font> <font color="#330033">to</font> <font
                      color="#330033">un-ground</font> <font
                      color="#330033">the system by turning<br>
                      off the DC input or output breaker.</font></span></font><br>
                <font face="Courier New, Courier, monospace"><br>
                  4 AWG should be fine for 80 amps. If you need/want to
                  use smaller wire<br>
                  than that required for an 80 amp GFP, MidNite makes a
                  63 amp GFP.<br>
                  <br>
                  boB<br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  On 4/17/2012 6:42 PM, William Miller wrote:<br>
                </font>
                <blockquote type="cite"><font face="Courier New,
                    Courier, monospace"> Friends:<br>
                    <br>
                    Here is a related problem:  If we use an 80 amp GFD
                    (ground fault detection) breaker, even for a very
                    small array, we have to use 3AWG CU wire from the
                    battery buss to the breaker and from the breaker to
                    the FM or MX60.  This seems like a big hassle for 5
                    or 10 amps of charging.  A variety of sizes of GFD
                    breakers would be helpful.<br>
                    <br>
                    Here is a bigger problem:  GFD breakers don't really
                    work.  All they do is turn off the charge function
                    in hopes that someone will find the problem.  In the
                    meantime, the negative-to-ground bond is removed and
                    module mounting framework could be energized.  PV
                    GFD breakers are completely different from standard
                    AC GFDI (ground fault detection and interruption)
                    receptacles and circuit breakers.  The AC versions
                    interrupt power upstream, the PV versions interrupt
                    power <i>downstream</i> from the fault.<br>
                    <br>
                    See: 
                    <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://millersolar.com/MillerSolar/case_studies/ground_fauilt/_ground_fault.html">http://millersolar.com/MillerSolar/case_studies/ground_fauilt/_ground_fault.html</a>

                    for some musings on the subject.<br>
                    <br>
                    As they say on TV: "There had to be a better way!"<br>
                    <br>
                    William Miller<br>
                    <br>
                    <br>
                    <br>
                    At 05:54 PM 4/17/2012, Kent Osterberg wrote:</font>
                  <font face="Courier New, Courier, monospace"><br>
                  </font>
                  <blockquote class="yiv406557911cite" cite=""
                    type="cite"><font face="Courier New, Courier,
                      monospace">Nathan,<br>
                      <br>
                      I don't think anyone makes a 100-amp PV GFP. The
                      panel mount breaker model that's being used for
                      the PV GFP doesn't include a 100-amp breaker.</font>
                    <font face="Courier New, Courier, monospace"><br>
                      <br>
                      The Classic has a built-in GFP so you shouldn't
                      need an external GFP for it. You will need to add
                      a GFP for the FM60 - a single 80-amp GFP would
                      work.<br>
                      <br>
                      You can use the dual 80-amp GFP and shut down both
                      PV arrays at the same time if the GFP is wired to
                      disconnect the PV array from the charge controller
                      input. That's where Outback's instructions used to
                      show the GFP, and it is a better place for it than
                      on the charge controller output anyway. Midnite's
                      instructions show the GFP on the charge controller
                      input, but their 80-amp GFP is a single.<br>
                      <br>
                    </font>
                    <pre><font face="Courier New, Courier, monospace">Kent Osterberg
Blue Mountain Solar, Inc.
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.bluemountainsolar.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.bluemountainsolar.com</a>
</font></pre>
                    <font face="Courier New, Courier, monospace"><br>
                      On 4/17/2012 11:08 AM, Nathan Stumpff wrote: <br>
                    </font>
                    <blockquote class="yiv406557911cite" cite=""
                      type="cite"><font face="Courier New, Courier,
                        monospace">Wrenches,<br>
                         <br>
                        In a job coming up I have a customer with an
                        existing FM60 controller,  520 watt (!!) array.
                        We are doing a ton of work, including adding a 4
                        kW solar array with Classic 150 charge
                        controller. I am trying to figure out how to
                        handle the GFP.<br>
                         <br>
                        For the Classic, I need a 90 or 100 A output
                        breaker minimum. 80 A is not an option. The
                        OutBack dual GFP is 80 A, and so it not an
                        option.<br>
                         <br>
                        Is there a 100 A GFP breaker assembly I have
                        just never seen? Is there a way to use the
                        Classic’s GFP to run an external relay via AUX
                        (to trip the FM60 output breaker at the same
                        time)? Any ideas?<br>
                         <br>
                        Thanks,<br>
                        -Nathan<br>
                          <br>
                        Nathan J. Stumpff - Arctic Sun, LLC<br>
                        NABCEP Ceritified PV Installer #091209-175<br>
                        <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:nathan@arcticsun-llc.com"
                          rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
                          ymailto="mailto:nathan@arcticsun-llc.com">nathan@arcticsun-llc.com</a></font>
                      <font face="Courier New, Courier, monospace"><br>
                        Office: 907/457-1297<br>
                      </font> </blockquote>
                    <font face="Courier New, Courier, monospace">_________<br>
                    </font></blockquote>
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