<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><div><span>I have seen very hot batteries infact batteries that melted. and caught fire. the problem was that the string was several strings in parallel, and one of the strings had thermal runaway. during charge one battery got hot, and it has lower voltage and gets more current. then it get hotter because of the more curent. soon it is so hot the other batteries start to discharge through the hot battery. </span></div><div><span></span> </div><div><span>A similar event will occur when one battery in a string of batteries develops a bad cell, and the othe batteries in parallel strings will force current backwards through the cell. and thermal runaway occcurs in the hot battery. </span></div><div><br></div> <div style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div
style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir="ltr"> <font size="2" face="Arial"> <div style="margin: 5px 0px; padding: 0px; border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); height: 0px; line-height: 0; font-size: 0px;" class="hr" contentEditable="false" readonly="true"></div> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> Jason Szumlanski <jason@fafcosolar.com><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Monday, April 2, 2012 11:53 AM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Hot Trojan Batteries<br> </font> </div> <br>
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--></style><div><div class="yiv918842169WordSection1"><div class="yiv918842169MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">There must be some confusion here about the charging rate. C/20 refers to capacity divided by 20, so in the case of a 325aH battery (capacity @ the 20 hour discharge rate) we’re talking about charging at a 16.25 amp rate. I’m sure John is not referring to a maximum rate of 10-15% of 16.25 amps, but 10-15% of the 325aH capacity.</span></div>
<div class="yiv918842169MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div><div><div class="yiv918842169MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 12pt;">Jason Szumlanski</span></div><div class="yiv918842169MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Fafco Solar</span></div>
<div class="yiv918842169MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div></div><div class="yiv918842169MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div><div><div style="border-width: 1pt medium medium; border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223) currentColor currentColor; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;"><div class="yiv918842169MsoNormal">
<b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> <a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>John DeBoever<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, April 02, 2012 12:14 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:allsolar@scswifi.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:allsolar@scswifi.net">allsolar@scswifi.net</a>; RE-wrenches<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Hot Trojan Batteries</span></div></div></div><div class="yiv918842169MsoNormal">
</div><div class="yiv918842169MsoPlainText"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Jeremy, Wrenches,</span></div><div class="yiv918842169MsoPlainText"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div><div class="yiv918842169MsoPlainText"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">165°F is definitely too high and you should stop immediately any charge to avoid further major problems. I recommend you contact our Trojan Tech Support for help at http://www.trojanbatteryre.com/Tech_Support/Tech_Support.html?tab=0#TabbedPanels1#top </span></div>
<div class="yiv918842169MsoPlainText"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div><div class="yiv918842169MsoPlainText"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Below are few perspectives to help the diagnostic:</span></div><div class="yiv918842169MsoPlainText"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div>
<div style="margin-left: 0.25in;" class="yiv918842169MsoPlainText"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><span>o<span> </span></span></span><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">System issues: </span></div>
<div style="margin-left: 0.5in;" class="yiv918842169MsoPlainText"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Wingdings;"><span>ü<span> </span></span></span><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Check Charger setting: the C/20 rate mentioned is definitely too high and will damage the battery. The maximum recommended current rate is 10-15% of C/20 for a deep-cycle flooded lead acid battery. Other C/rates are possible but are application specific and not typical.</span></div>
<div style="margin-left: 0.5in;" class="yiv918842169MsoPlainText"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Wingdings;"><span>ü<span> </span></span></span><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Check Voltage settings: these are provided on Trojan datasheets, see here: http://www.trojanbatteryre.com/Tech_Support/literature.html </span></div>
<div style="margin-left: 0.5in;" class="yiv918842169MsoPlainText"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Wingdings;"><span>ü<span> </span></span></span><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Check Temperature compensation: -0.028VPC for every 10°F above 77°F (add 0.028 VPC for every 10°F below 77°F or subtract 0.020VPC for every 10°F above 77°F. See here: http://www.trojanbatteryre.com/PDF/Signature_Trojan_ProductLineSheet.pdf </span></div>
<div style="margin-left: 0.5in;" class="yiv918842169MsoPlainText"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Wingdings;"><span>ü<span> </span></span></span><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Check Voltage sensor status and connection. Dedicated wiring is recommended</span></div>
<div style="margin-left: 0.5in;" class="yiv918842169MsoPlainText"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Wingdings;"><span>ü<span> </span></span></span><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Check temperature sensor. It shall be well positioned, typically in the middle of the battery bank at the warmest point.</span></div>
<div style="margin-left: 0.5in;" class="yiv918842169MsoPlainText"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Wingdings;"><span>ü<span> </span></span></span><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Check if air circulation between the battery units. </span></div>
<div style="margin-left: 0.5in;" class="yiv918842169MsoPlainText"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Wingdings;"><span>ü<span> </span></span></span><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Check if adequate air ventilation of the battery room.</span></div>
<div class="yiv918842169MsoPlainText"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div><div style="margin-left: 0.25in;" class="yiv918842169MsoPlainText"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><span>o<span> </span></span></span><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Battery issues:</span></div>
<div style="margin-left: 0.5in;" class="yiv918842169MsoPlainText"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Wingdings;"><span>ü<span> </span></span></span><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">C/20 charging rate is too high (see above)</span></div>
<div style="margin-left: 0.5in;" class="yiv918842169MsoPlainText"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Wingdings;"><span>ü<span> </span></span></span><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">How old are the batteries? Ageing batteries will face micro-shorts that will decrease the battery turnaround efficiency over time that translates in higher temperature generation. Typically the battery temperature range is about 20<sup>o</sup>F above ambient temperature, and typical min and max limit are -4°F to 113°F. </span></div>
<div style="margin-left: 0.5in;" class="yiv918842169MsoPlainText"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">See here:</span> <span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><a href="http://www.trojanbatteryre.com/PDF/Signature_Trojan_ProductLineSheet.pdf" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.trojanbatteryre.com/PDF/Signature_Trojan_ProductLineSheet.pdf</a> </span></div>
<div style="margin-left: 0.5in;" class="yiv918842169MsoPlainText"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">165°F is way too high and will damage the units</span></div><div style="margin-left: 0.5in;" class="yiv918842169MsoPlainText"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Wingdings;"><span>ü<span> </span></span></span><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Maybe you are facing one or more shorted units: check the voltage and it will quickly indicate if a unit is shorted. Shorted units will generate heat and will jeopardize the charging of other units. Remove shorted units and consult tech support your charger supplier if possible to reconfigure of your battery bank with fewer units, configured at a lower battery bank voltage, using same voltage settings recommended by Trojan Battery Company. Typically 1 to 3 units less would be acceptable, depending the charger manufacturer settings.</span></div>
<div style="margin-left: 0.5in;" class="yiv918842169MsoPlainText"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Wingdings;"><span>ü<span> </span></span></span><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Maybe you are facing sulfated batteries, resulting from low charging, thus resulting in lower overall turnaround efficiency. This will heat some healthier units of the battery bank, accelerating corrosion damages. The max temperature acceptable being 113°F, please consult Trojan Tech Support: <a href="http://www.trojanbatteryre.com/Tech_Support/Tech_Support.html?tab=0#TabbedPanels1#top" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.trojanbatteryre.com/Tech_Support/Tech_Support.html?tab=0#TabbedPanels1#top</a></span></div>
<div style="margin-left: 0.5in;" class="yiv918842169MsoPlainText"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Wingdings;"><span>ü<span> </span></span></span><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Please deal directly off-Wrenches list, with Trojan Tech Support for better fine tune resolution: <a href="http://www.trojanbatteryre.com/Tech_Support/Tech_Support.html?tab=0#TabbedPanels1#top" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.trojanbatteryre.com/Tech_Support/Tech_Support.html?tab=0#TabbedPanels1#top</a></span></div>
<div class="yiv918842169MsoPlainText"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div><div class="yiv918842169MsoPlainText"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I hope this help,</span></div><div class="yiv918842169MsoPlainText"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div><div class="yiv918842169MsoPlainText">
<span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">John</span></div><div class="yiv918842169MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">John F. DeBoever</span></div><div class="yiv918842169MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Global Technical Director – Renewable Energy</span></div>
<div class="yiv918842169MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Trojan Battery Company</span></b></div><div class="yiv918842169MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 8pt;"> </span></div><div class="yiv918842169MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt;">12380 Clark Street </span></div>
<div class="yiv918842169MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt;">Santa Fe Springs, CA 90670</span></div><div class="yiv918842169MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt;">Tel: +1-562-236-3000 Ext. 3139</span></div><div class="yiv918842169MsoNormal"><b><span style="color: rgb(149, 55, 53); font-size: 10pt;">Cell: +1-845-514-7600 – NY office time zone: USA EST (GMT-5)</span></b></div>
<div class="yiv918842169MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt;">Skype: john.f.deboever</span></div><div class="yiv918842169MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt;" lang="FR">Fax: +1-562-236-3239</span></div><div class="yiv918842169MsoNormal"><a href="mailto:jdeboever@trojanbattery.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:jdeboever@trojanbattery.com"><span style="font-size: 9pt;" lang="FR">jdeboever@trojanbattery.com</span></a><span style="font-size: 9pt;" lang="FR"></span></div>
<div class="yiv918842169MsoNormal"><a href="http://www.trojanbattery.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 9pt;" lang="FR">www.trojanbattery.com</span></a><span style="font-size: 9pt;" lang="FR"></span></div><div class="yiv918842169MsoPlainText"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang="FR"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv918842169MsoPlainText">-----Original Message-----<br>From: <a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a> [<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>] On Behalf Of <a href="mailto:allsolar@scswifi.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:allsolar@scswifi.net">allsolar@scswifi.net</a><br>
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2012 7:20 PM<br>To: <a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br>Subject: [RE-wrenches] Hot Trojan Batteries</div><div class="yiv918842169MsoPlainText"> </div><div class="yiv918842169MsoPlainText">
Wrenches,</div><div class="yiv918842169MsoPlainText">Can anyone explain why an L16 bank would be at 165F at rest. Over a C20 charge rate, but I have a feeling there might be an internal short </div><div class="yiv918842169MsoPlainText"> </div><div class="yiv918842169MsoPlainText">
Jeremy</div><div class="yiv918842169MsoPlainText">All Solar</div><div class="yiv918842169MsoPlainText">Sent via BlackBerry. Sorry for typos and shorthand!</div><div class="yiv918842169MsoPlainText">_______________________________________________</div><div class="yiv918842169MsoPlainText">
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