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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>When the Grid shuts off, the SI sends a signal to the SB’s
to go into what is called “Back-up Mode” (this is a parameter
change in the SB).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>When there are no loads and the Batt are full, the SI will ramp
the Frequency up, thus forcing the power from the SB to drop down to close to
zero watts, the SB never disconnects fully.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>As soon as there is a load, the frequency drops, SB output
raises and provides power to the protected loads.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>The changing of the parameter in the SB, opens the window of the
frequency to allow for this feature.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>It will work with other brand inverters but, they would need to
be in off-grid mode all the time (which is out of the standard UL settings). If
not in off-grid mode, other inverters will go into the 5 minute waiting period
before trying to reconnect, then if the Hz is not back within the UL range, it
will wait another 5 min.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Thanks <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>SMA America, LLC<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Steve Jefferson<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Sr. Technical Service Specialist, Sunny Family</span></i><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>6020 West Oaks Blvd, Suite 300<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Rocklin, CA 95765 - 3714<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>U.S.A.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Tel: +1 916 625 0870<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Fax: +1 916 624-2445<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Service Line +1 877 697 6283 (Toll Free)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Email: steve.jefferson@sma-america.com<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><a href="http://www.sma-america.com/">www.SMA-America.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>This email and any attachments thereto may contain SMA America,
LLC confidential, privileged and private material for the sole use of the
intended recipient. Any review, copying, or distribution of this email (or any
attachments thereto) by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the
intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and permanently
delete the original and any copies of this email and any attachments thereto.
Thank you.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Glenn
Burt<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, March 05, 2012 6:18 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'RE-wrenches'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Grid-Tied, PV by AC or DC<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>As I understand it, the SI to SB connection works slightly
differently than described below, and this is borne out by my experience, and a
lot of re-reading the SMA literature;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Grid goes away – SI shifts to a voltage source for the SB<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>SI communicates with SB and tells it to operate in off-grid
mode, widening its voltage window outside of the UL 1741 usual values<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Batteries full & no loads, SI shifts the frequency of its
micro grid slightly and SB will eventually drop off line. This is why it also
works with other manufacturers inverters because it does not rely on the SMA
proprietary data comms to make this happen.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>SI continues to monitor its loads and the grid and during the
night it will shift the freq of its micro grid slightly in the opposite
direction to ‘make up’ for the period it used this to remove the
SB, allowing things like clocks that use the 60Hz of the grid to regain time.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>SI detects return of grid – communicates with SB and
returns it to normal UL 1741 mode<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Glenn Burt<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Larry
Brown<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, March 04, 2012 11:13 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Grid-Tied, PV by AC or DC<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Jay,<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>We have installed a number of AC Coupled systems using Sunny
Boys and Sunny Islands. One important consideration in this approach is
to connect the inverters (Sunny Boys and Sunny Islands) together with a
communication cable and Communication Cards and to upload new software into the
Sunny Boys that let them know when the grid is down to operate in off grid
mode. In this way when the grid is down the Sunny islands can limit the output
of the Sunny Boys to meet the demand of the loads in the protected loads sub
panel. Without the communication between the inverters, if the grid is down and
the output of the Sunny Boys exceeds the demand of the loads in the protected
load sub panel, then the Sunny Island will phase shift and the Sunny Boys will
completely disconnect and then wait five minutes to try and connect again and
will continue to do this until the output of the Sunny Boys does not exceed the
demand of the loads. So it is all or nothing without communication
between the inverters. This would seem to hold true as well for Sunny
Islands mixed with any other Grid Tied inverters that are not of the SMA family
and can not effectively talk to each other.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Larry<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Larry Brown<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Sun Mountain<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>NABCEP Certified PV Installer<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>On Mar 4, 2012, at 10:25 AM, jay peltz wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>HI Darryl,<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Is this a UL listed application for the Radian/Outback?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>And in following this thread about AC coupled:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Given the higher efficiency of the batteryless inverter and
fantastic MPP, vs the relatively high losses with the 600v xantrex or standard
CC/inverter losses, I would use the AC couple technique.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Jay<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>peltz power<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>On Mar 3, 2012, at 8:06 AM, Darryl Thayer wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>A few years back I made some year long measurements on an outback
GVFX and a sunny boy for net energy to the grid I got only a few percentages
not 10% I think one of the problems is the battery selection, these new
batteries from Outback seem to have very low self discharge so very little
energy should be expended to keep them charged. I am trying to close on a
system where the distance from the solar array to the house is far, so I am
planning to AC couple to a Radian to the grid, and I have been sucessful with
AC coupleing on GVFXs and Outback assures me it will workas well with
theRradian. This install is very sensitive to LOL (loss of load) and has
the generator ready to go, but for the short outages that he has it is a
hassel. (he has worn out one generator all ready, it was a construction
grade genny) <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>I am hoping if this system is a go to consider a Xantrex 600 volt
charge controller, but it depends upon the customer<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>thanks for the patence <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>Darryl<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> Drake
<<a href="mailto:drake.chamberlin@redwoodalliance.org">drake.chamberlin@redwoodalliance.org</a>><br>
<b>To:</b> RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, March 2, 2012 9:31 AM<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Grid-Tied, PV by AC or DC</span><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div id=yiv497211800>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span
style='color:black'>I think the AC coupled approach would be the best.
For the 10KW system, a pair of Sunny Islands fed by Sunny Boys would make an
efficient system. Since there is no generator, the system should be
fairly straight forward. <br>
<br>
At 02:06 AM 3/2/2012, you wrote:<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:13.5pt;background:white'><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>i think
mark was asking more about ac coupling to get away from the horrible
inefficiencies of battery based, grid-tied inverters.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
as an experiment, i have been thinking about ac coupling one (or more) of my
arrays on my outback system to gain 10% over having the gvfx do the selling.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
stc to ptc usually costs about 20%, then losing another 10% in the inverter is
a real performance hit. i advise customers about phantom loads and
conservation, when actually the battery based inverter is itself the big lump
under the carpet!<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
todd<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Thursday, March 1, 2012 7:07pm, "Maverick Brown [Maverick Solar]"
<<a href="mailto:maverick@mavericksolar.com">maverick@mavericksolar.com</a>>
said:<br>
<br>
My two cents:<br>
"battery-based inverter w/ PV on the DC side via charge controllers"<br>
Simply replace the GT inverter with a Xantrex 600V Charge Controller plus the
48V Grid Interactive Inverter of your choice and added battery bank, etc.<br>
Until the market is saturated with unneeded GT Inverters, you will be ok. ;-)<br>
Try your best to provide enough battery for at least 24 hours of outage at 50%
DOD. You may have add a Sub-Panel or Manual Transfer Switch.<br>
Thanks<br>
Maverick<br>
Maverick Brown<br>
BSEET, NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer ® # 091209-26<br>
President & CEO<br>
<b>Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc.<br>
</b>Billing: PO BOX 1229, Dripping Springs, TX 78620<br>
Office: 512-919-4493<br>
Fax: 512-607-6398<br>
Cell: 512-460-9825<br>
Corporate: <a href="http://www.mavericksolarenterprises.com/">http://www.mavericksolarenterprises.com/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <a
href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>
[<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">
mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b><a
href="mailto:toddcory@finestplanet.com">toddcory@finestplanet.com</a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 01, 2012 5:46 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br>
<b>Cc:</b> 'RE-wrenches'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Grid-Tied, PV by AC or DC<br>
<br>
excellent question mark... and one which has been on my mind as well, being
most of my work is bbgt.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
todd<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Thursday, March 1, 2012 11:37am, "Mark Frye" <<a
href="mailto:markf@berkeleysolar.com">markf@berkeleysolar.com</a>> said:<br>
<br>
Folks,<br>
<br>
I have a residential grid-tied customer in a net metered utility with a
favorable TOU rate.<br>
<br>
They could use about 10 kW of PV to offset 100% of their usage.<br>
<br>
But, they also complain about regular power outages in their neigborhood. They
don't want a generator.<br>
<br>
With reliable AC coupling now available, do we yet know which is the more
advantagous architecture; grid-tied, battery-based inverter w/ PV on the DC
side via charge controllers, or grid-tied, battery-based inverter w/ PV AC
coupled via grid-tied, utility-based inverter?<br>
<br>
Your thoughts? <br>
<br>
Mark Frye <br>
Berkeley Solar Electric Systems <br>
303 Redbud Way <br>
Nevada City, CA 95959 <br>
(530) 401-8024 <br>
<a href="http://www.berkeleysolar.com/" target="_blank">www.berkeleysolar.com</a>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Sent from Finest Planet WebMail.<br>
</span><span style='color:black'><br>
<br>
<br>
Sent from Finest Planet WebMail.<br>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>Drake Chamberlin <br>
ATHENS ELECTRIC LLC<br>
OH License 44810 <br>
CO license 3773<br>
NABCEP Certified PV</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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