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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple style='word-wrap: break-word;-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;-webkit-line-break: after-white-space'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Alan and Larry,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>My Franklin Motor book says that a 230VAC single-phase 3HP pump motor has a locked rotor amp rating of 83.4A, and a “max load’ of 3400W. Franklin recommends a 40A breaker for this motor. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>A single OutBack Radian <u>should</u> start it, but it’s close. The Radian spec sheet says 100A at 240VAC for 1 ms, and 70.7A for 100 ms. It also states a 16.97 kVA 100 ms surge<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Very iffy, although I think that it will work. You might want to contact OutBack about it rather than taking the chance. Or plan on two Radians.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Brian Teitelbaum<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>AEE Solar<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systems<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, February 15, 2012 10:38 AM<br><b>To:</b> Allan@positiveenergysolar.com; RE-wrenches<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Design Question re Battery Bank Sizing<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Alan,<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>See if you can find the locked rotor amps (LRA) for this pump. Design to provide that much current for starting the pump. My guess is about 7-9kW for a 3HP.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I'm not a fan of multiple parallel strings but you are correct that parallel strings will produce more instantaneous current. However in this case, I don't recommend it. Even with other loads it is not likely you will demand more than 250 amps @ 48Vdc draw on the battery to start the pump. That is not excessive for an AGM battery, especially since it is very short duration. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>If you need more battery capacity, opt for lower voltage batteries instead of paralleling.<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><br>Larry Crutcher<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Starlight Solar Power Systems<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>(928) 342-9103<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Feb 15, 2012, at 10:53 AM, Allan Sindelar wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Esteemed fellow Wrenches,<br>We need to size a battery bank for a GTWB just for starting a well pump. The well is on its own meter, so as long as the battery voltage does not crash when the pump starts there will be plenty of capacity left over for minimal loads. We'll be using sealed batteries, most likely Concorde SunXtenders. According to theSunXtender Technical Manual, Concordes can handle up to a C/0.2 charge rate (500A for a 100Ah battery), but there is no discussion of maximum discharge rates or voltage drop due to large surge loads.<br><br clear=all>The pump is 3HP and is conventional 3-wire, not soft-start. The well is 940ft. and the depth to water is unknown. It pumps into a pressure tank, not open discharge. Customers are not interested in replacing the pump, but might be talked into adding a soft start Franklin controller, although at this preliminary design stage we're not certain one is available for this particular model. The inverter would be a Radian, so system voltage is 48V.<br><br>I would think that configuration would make a difference, as well as size. Using 12V batteries in series/parallel would minimize interconnect and terminal resistance. I think that it would also allow multiple paths for discharge current, reducing the voltage dip.<br><br>What's your best guess at the smallest size battery bank that would reliably start this pump, and how would it best be configured? <br><br>Thank you,<br>Allan<br><br><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><b>Allan Sindelar</b><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><a href="mailto:Allan@positiveenergysolar.com"><span style='color:#000099'>Allan@positiveenergysolar.com</span></a></span><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer<br>NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional<br>New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician<br><b>Positive Energy, Inc.</b><br>3201 Calle Marie<br>Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507<br><b>505 424-1112</b><br><a href="http://www.positiveenergysolar.com/" target="_blank">www.positiveenergysolar.com</a></span> <o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br><br><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>_______________________________________________<br>List sponsored by Home Power magazine<br><br>List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>Options & settings:<br><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org<br><br>List rules & etiquette:<br>www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm<br><br>Check out participant bios:<br>www.members.re-wrenches.org<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></body></html>