<html>
  <head>
    <meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
      http-equiv="Content-Type">
  </head>
  <body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
    On 1/17/2012 6:32 PM, Bill Hoffer wrote:
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CAL4SeazXrKRqEziCWJx0ddZAgeJw=pojKCT5bhzHSArxgqFd2g@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">Bob<br>
      <br>
      Wonder how Module manufacturer warranties will handle applying
      reverse current to the module , especially if it is more than the
      power rating of the module???  I would want that one in writing
      before risking having to write off an array in order to melt a
      little snow!<br>
      <br>
      Bill<br>
      <br>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    Hey Bill !!<br>
    <br>
    Don't worry, I wouldn't dream of doing something that is outside the
    module's specifications.<br>
    <br>
    Most  PV module manufacturers don't quite understand how this works
    either but one particular <br>
    manufacturer liked the idea when I brought it up to them a couple
    years ago at SPI.<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    This mode of operation is also done in part of the UL testing. 
    There are certain rules<br>
    that have to be followed for this and luckily, most properly
    installed systems are already protected.<br>
    <br>
    It's actually much easier on the modules than you might think.<br>
    <br>
    boB<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CAL4SeazXrKRqEziCWJx0ddZAgeJw=pojKCT5bhzHSArxgqFd2g@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 4:37 PM, <a
          moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:boB@midnitesolar.com">boB@midnitesolar.com</a>
        <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
            href="mailto:boB@midnitesolar.com">boB@midnitesolar.com</a>></span>
        wrote:<br>
        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
          .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
          <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
            <div class="im"> On 1/17/2012 4:18 PM, benn kilburn wrote:
              <blockquote type="cite">
                <div dir="ltr"> boB,
                  <div>If this concept were to become a working option
                    for the Classic, would the modules have to be
                    modified in any way?  Why are the diodes not
                    blocking the reverse current?</div>
                  <div>benn<br>
                    <br>
                    <span style="color:rgb(0,32,96)"><font
                        face="'Franklin Gothic Medium'">DayStar
                        Renewable Energy Inc. </font></span>
                    <div>
                      <div><font face="'Franklin Gothic Medium'"><a
                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="mailto:benn@daystarsolar.ca"
                            target="_blank">benn@daystarsolar.ca</a></font></div>
                      <div><font face="'Franklin Gothic Medium'"><a
                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="tel:780-906-7807" value="+17809067807"
                            target="_blank">780-906-7807</a> </font></div>
                      <div><font face="'Franklin Gothic Medium'">HAVE A
                          SUNNY DAY </font></div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </blockquote>
              <br>
              <br>
              <br>
            </div>
            No mods.  However, as you can see, if the controller is
            maxed out as far as<br>
            array size, that could limit the snow melting effect.   I
            don't have any hard<br>
            data as for the minimum power needed to apply to the array
            for snow melting,<br>
            but it could be around twice the power to melt snow as the
            power rating of<br>
            the array.   Yesterday's experiment was less than 2wice the
            power rating<br>
            and it may have been fine with with even less, so that's a
            very good sign.<br>
            <br>
            How much power does it take to melt snow off of a car's rear
            window from<br>
            the electric defroster ?  It's a similar kind thing.<br>
            <br>
            Diodes ??  You mean the bypass diodes ??   No problem. 
            Those don't<br>
            conduct in this case.<span class="HOEnZb"><font
                color="#888888"><br>
                <br>
                boB</font></span>
            <div>
              <div class="h5"><br>
                <br>
                <br>
                <br>
                <blockquote type="cite">
                  <div dir="ltr">
                    <div>
                      <div>
                        <div><br>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                      <br>
                      <br>
                      <div>
                        <hr>Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2012 13:14:36 -0800<br>
                        From: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:boB@midnitesolar.com"
                          target="_blank">boB@midnitesolar.com</a><br>
                        To: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"
                          target="_blank">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
                        Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Shedding ice<br>
                        <br>
                        On 1/16/2012 11:39 AM, David Katz wrote:
                        <blockquote> <font
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Mark,<br>
                            I believe the Midnite Classic has this
                            feature built in. Check with them.<br>
                            David Katz</font><br>
                           <br>
                        </blockquote>
                        <br>
                        <br>
                        It just snowed up here in Arlington, Washington
                        A.C.  and we were just starting to melt some
                        snow<br>
                        on a couple of modules on our roof just now with
                        one of our charge controllers here in the lab.<br>
                        <br>
                        This feature is not yet in the Classic, BUT,
                        check out this experiment that I did about 3
                        years ago<br>
                        in my front yard with an animated gif time
                        lapse.<br>
                        <br>
                        One module is being powered and the other is not
                        powered, just sitting there for comparison.<br>
                        These are KC125s.<br>
                        <br>
                        The time involved here was about 3 hours and
                        took about 1 kW-hour of energy but gives you<br>
                        an idea of what may be done with this idea.  One
                        thing not in our favor here is that the module<br>
                        that is being powered is resting on the ground,
                        in the snow, which would significantly<br>
                        hinder snow melting I would think rather than
                        being properly mounted.<br>
                        <br>
                        Oh what fun it is to melt some PV snow tonight !<br>
                        <br>
                        <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="http://fusion.midnitesolar.com/PVsnowMelt3.gif"
                          target="_blank">http://fusion.midnitesolar.com/PVsnowMelt3.gif</a><br>
                        <br>
                        boB<br>
                        <br>
                        <br>
                        <br>
                        <br>
                        <br>
                        <br>
                        <br>
                        <br>
                        <blockquote>
                          <div> <font
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""><b>From</b>:
                              Mark Dickson [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                href="mailto:Mark@OasisMontana.com"
                                target="_blank">mailto:Mark@OasisMontana.com</a>]
                              <br>
                              <b>Sent</b>: Monday, January 16, 2012
                              10:00 AM<br>
                              <b>To</b>: 'RE-wrenches' <a
                                moz-do-not-send="true"
                                href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"
                                target="_blank"><re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org></a>
                              <br>
                              <b>Subject</b>: [RE-wrenches] Shedding ice
                              <br>
                            </font> <br>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <p><font color="navy" face="Arial"><span
                                  style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">I
                                  recall a conversation a while back
                                  about the possibility of “reversing”
                                  the current in a solar module to
                                  increase the cell temp enough to shed
                                  ice/rime.  To follow-up, has anybody
                                  been successful at this?  I am
                                  guessing, if so, it would entail,
                                  removal of diodes, increasing PV and
                                  battery capacity and some way to sense
                                  the ice at the very least. . . It
                                  sounds good in theory, but I am
                                  skeptical as to whether it will work
                                  in reality. . .</span></font></p>
                            <p><font color="navy" face="Arial"><span
                                  style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"> </span></font></p>
                            <div>
                              <p><font color="navy" face="Comic Sans MS"><span
                                    style="">Best regards,</span></font></p>
                              <p><font color="navy" face="Comic Sans MS"><span
                                    style=""> </span></font></p>
                              <p><font color="navy" face="Comic Sans MS"><span
                                    style="">Mark Dickson,</span></font><font
                                  color="navy"><span style="color:navy"></span></font></p>
                              <p><font color="navy" face="ArialMT"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:ArialMT;color:navy">NABCEP Certified
                                    Solar PV Installer ™</span></font></p>
                              <p><font color="navy" face="Comic Sans MS"><span
                                    style="">Oasis Montana Inc.</span></font></p>
                            </div>
                            <p><font color="navy" face="Arial"><span
                                  style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"> </span></font><br>
                            </p>
                          </div>
                        </blockquote>
                        <br>
                        <br>
                        _______________________________________________
                        List sponsored by Home Power magazine List
                        Address: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"
                          target="_blank">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>
                        Options & settings: <a
                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org"
                          target="_blank">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a>
                        List-Archive: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org"
                          target="_blank">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a>
                        List rules & etiquette: <a
                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm"
                          target="_blank">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a>
                        Check out participant bios: <a
                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org"
                          target="_blank">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a></div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                  <br>
                  <fieldset></fieldset>
                  <br>
                  <pre>_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>

Options & settings:
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a>

List-Archive: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a>

List rules & etiquette:
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm" target="_blank">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a>

Check out participant bios:
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a>

</pre>
                </blockquote>
                <br>
              </div>
            </div>
          </div>
          <br>
          _______________________________________________<br>
          List sponsored by Home Power magazine<br>
          <br>
          List Address: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
            href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
          <br>
          Options & settings:<br>
          <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org"
            target="_blank">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br>
          <br>
          List-Archive: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org"
            target="_blank">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br>
          <br>
          List rules & etiquette:<br>
          <a moz-do-not-send="true"
            href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm"
            target="_blank">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br>
          <br>
          Check out participant bios:<br>
          <a moz-do-not-send="true"
            href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
          <br>
          <br>
        </blockquote>
      </div>
      <br>
      <br clear="all">
      <br>
      -- <br>
      Bill Hoffer PE<br>
      NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™<br>
      Sunergy Engineering Services PLLC<br>
      2504 Columbia Ave NW<br>
      East Wenatchee WA 98802-3941<br>
      <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:SunEngSer@gmail.com">SunEngSer@gmail.com</a>
      Cell:(509)679-6165<br>
      <br>
      <br>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <br>
      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>

Options & settings:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a>

List-Archive: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a>

List rules & etiquette:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a>

Check out participant bios:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a>

</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
  </body>
</html>