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Hi Mark;<br>
<br>
Robin Gudgel at Midnite was talking about a setting on the Classic
that could do that. I'm not sure how far they went with the
concept, but it definitely is beyond mere theory. I'd check with
them, and see where they were at with that.<br>
<br>
Ray Walters<br>
<br>
On 1/16/2012 11:00 AM, Mark Dickson wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:49C234EE56E344CEA5B7E836E6C95A2E@OasisMarkHP"
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<div class="Section1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial"
size="2"><span style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">I recall a
conversation a while back about
the possibility of “reversing” the current in a
solar module to
increase the cell temp enough to shed ice/rime.
To follow-up, has anybody
been successful at this? I am guessing, if so, it
would entail, removal
of diodes, increasing PV and battery capacity and
some way to sense the ice at
the very least. . . It sounds good in theory, but
I am skeptical as to whether
it will work in reality. . .<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial"
size="2"><span style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Comic
Sans MS" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Comic
Sans MS";color:navy">Best regards,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Comic
Sans MS" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Comic
Sans MS";color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Comic
Sans MS" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Comic
Sans MS";color:navy">Mark Dickson,</span></font><font
color="navy"><span style="color:navy"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="ArialMT"
size="2"><span style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:ArialMT;color:navy">NABCEP
Certified Solar PV Installer
™<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Comic
Sans MS" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Comic
Sans MS";color:navy">Oasis Montana
Inc.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial"
size="2"><span style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center"
align="center"><font color="black" face="Times New
Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:windowtext">
<hr tabindex="-1" align="center" size="2"
width="100%">
</span></font></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font color="black"
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:windowtext;font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b><font
color="black" face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
color:windowtext">
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>]
<b><span style="font-weight:
bold">On Behalf Of </span></b>Allan
Sindelar<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b>
Monday, January 16, 2012
10:52 AM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b>
Re: [RE-wrenches] Request
for Gennie Recommendation</span></font><font
color="black"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New
Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New
Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Wrenches,<br>
I very much appreciate this ongoing thread, thank
you.<br>
<br>
This actually feels like one of those "damned if
you do, damned if you
don't" scenarios. The system is six years old,
poorly designed and
installed. Two SW5548s, most likely chosen in
order to run a 2HP conventional
well pump for this manufactured home. Thirty-two
L16s in four strings, in two
unvented battery boxes in an unheated shed at
7800'. 1.66kW of PV plus an H40?
wind generator, in an area not known for great
wind resource. The inverters
either were never programmed correctly or lost
programming the first time a
battery was replaced, so the batteries never got
above default 57.6V and were
never equalized. When the L16s started failing,
the installer instructed the
owners to replace individual batteries, over and
over until 17 of the 32 had
been replaced, one or two or four at a time. With
a continuing stream of
failing cells, each time the well pump came on the
voltage dropped to
"must start" and the generator came on. With
default programming, the
inverters would charge to 57.6V (if the batteries
would get up there - not sure
if they ever did), then go through the two-hour
absorption, then shut off and
soon the cycle would repeat.<br>
<br>
The installer put a Link-10 in the home, but
without a prescaler, so it
couldn't work on a 48V system. So he tapped off of
part of one string. All
monitor programming was at default settings, so
the system monitor had been
useless to the homeowners since installation. This
was designed and installed
by someone in business doing wind and PV since the
1980s. His website claims he
is "</span></font><font face="Arial"><span
style="font-family:Arial">the
most experienced contracting company in the
Southwest specializing in
electric/electronic installation, service and
repair of independent, remote or
utility integrated power generation power
supplies. We provide electrical
engineering design, specializing in on-site
electrical power generation and
related control systems." </span></font>This is
some mighty poor work.<br>
<br>
Our immediate "rescue solution" was to string together
16 of the
replacement batteries, program the inverters to
corrective EQ, show the
homeowner how to change inverter settings, and replace
the Link-10 with a
TriMetric with prescaler, guessing at 500 amp-hours.
At first this appeared to
have failed - the battery voltage rose quickly under
charge and then fell just
as quickly. But we later learned that this actually
worked, as they told us
that after running a long corrective EQ, the batteries
came back and the
generator ran far less. But then the existing
generator failed to start;
apparently just worn out, and they're in bad shape.<br>
<br>
We plan to add about 2-2.5kW of array, although we
have no load profile from
them yet. The existing array is on two poles. The
(original) smaller array of 8
Sharp 80W 12V modules is shaded during winter by the
larger array of 6 Sharp
170W modules during the mornings. The larger array is
shaded by both a juniper
tree on winter mornings (until after 11 am) and by the
power equipment shed on
winter afternoons (after 3 pm). The ground is frozen
now, so we have no easy
way to either increase the array of move the existing
arrays out of where they
shade each other.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font color="black" face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt">They
have two SW5548s, so need around 15kW at 7800' to
run the inverters at full
capacity. The unknown is that we don't yet know
what size the new battery bank
will be; my SWAG is about 1,000 a-hr in a single
string of industrial cells.
Together the SWs can charge at 120A, so 1,000
A-hrs would be a good match. You
are correct that the generator run time will be
greatly reduced once the array
is increased, the batteries replaced, and their
loads reduced through customer
education. But they need a gennie right away, as
their PV and wind can't keep
up and the system is shutting down. I'm hesitant
to recommend a generator of
less than industrial quality, given their
experience to date with two
residential units. And any good generator has a
4-6 week lead time. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font color="black" face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt">What
would you do in this situation?<br>
Allan<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font color="black" face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt">P.S.
Chris Mason, your website doesn't jive...I went to
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.cometsystems.co">www.cometsystems.co</a>
and got a site that
said "Comet Systems Ltd. is a Certified Reseller
for Xorcom PBX products
and Ruckus Wireless." Doesn't appear to have
anything to do with either PV
or generators. Can you enlighten us?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font color="black"
face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-weight:bold">Allan
Sindelar</span></font></b><br>
<font size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Allan@positiveenergysolar.com"><font
color="#000099"><span style="color:#000099">Allan@positiveenergysolar.com</span></font></a></span></font><br>
<font size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">NABCEP
Certified Photovoltaic
Installer<br>
NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional<br>
<st1:state w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">New
Mexico</st1:place></st1:state>
EE98J Journeyman Electrician<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Positive
Energy, Inc.</span></b><br>
3201 Calle Marie<br>
<st1:place w:st="on"><st1:city w:st="on">Santa
Fe</st1:city>, <st1:state w:st="on">New
Mexico</st1:state> <st1:postalcode
w:st="on">87507</st1:postalcode></st1:place><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">505 424-1112</span></b><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.positiveenergysolar.com/"
target="_blank">www.positiveenergysolar.com</a><u1:p></u1:p></span></font>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-right:722.25pt;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font color="black"
face="Times New Roman" size="3"><st1:place
u2:st="on"><st1:city u2:st="on"></st1:city><st1:state
u2:st="on"></st1:state><st1:postalcode
u2:st="on"></st1:postalcode></st1:place><span
style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times
New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New
Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><br>
On 1/16/2012 9:03 AM, Dave Palumbo wrote: <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,
73,
125)"><font color="black" face="Calibri" size="2"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<u1:shapedefaults u3:ext="edit" spidmax="1026"/>
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<u1:shapelayout u4:ext="edit">
<u1:idmap u4:ext="edit" data="1"/>
</u1:shapelayout>
</xml><![endif]-->Chris,<u1:p></u1:p></span></font></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,
73,
125)"><u1:p><font color="black" face="Calibri"
size="2"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span></font></u1:p></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,
73,
125)"><font color="black" face="Calibri" size="2"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">It
would be very helpful if you quote “run hours”
rather than
“years”. <u1:p></u1:p></span></font></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,
73,
125)"><u1:p><font color="black" face="Calibri"
size="2"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span></font></u1:p></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,
73,
125)"><font color="black" face="Calibri" size="2"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">For
example we have seen:<u1:p></u1:p></span></font></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="msolistparagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in"><span
style="color:rgb(31,
73, 125)"><font color="black"
face="Calibri" size="2"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Inexpensive
small
generators (generally not worth rebuilding) 300
to 500 hours. These are
gasoline models of various brands and Generac LP
gas models. 3kW to 10kW in
size typically.<u1:p></u1:p></span></font></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="msolistparagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in"><span
style="color:rgb(31,
73, 125)"><font color="black"
face="Calibri" size="2"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Honda
gasoline
generators 2,500 hours and then rebuild. <u1:p></u1:p></span></font></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="msolistparagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in"><span
style="color:rgb(31,
73, 125)"><font color="black"
face="Calibri" size="2"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">10kW
Kohler
water cooled diesel gen set still operating
within specs at 9,600 hours
(rebuilt after 5,500 hrs). This has been in
service for 16 years, the first 4
years without inverter/battery system, and
another 6 years before the client
had us add a PV array to the system. Since
adding the PV array the generator
has run 200 hours per year.<u1:p></u1:p></span></font></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,
73,
125)"><font color="black" face="Calibri" size="2"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">All
are in off-grid service and loaded at 65% MAX
continuous (see some surges
higher than 65%, typically run at 60%, or below,
of rated power).<u1:p></u1:p></span></font></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,
73,
125)"><u1:p><font color="black" face="Calibri"
size="2"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span></font></u1:p></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,
73,
125)"><font color="black" face="Calibri" size="2"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">David
Palumbo<u1:p></u1:p></span></font></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,
73,
125)"><font color="black" face="Calibri" size="2"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Independent
Power
LLC <u1:p></u1:p></span></font></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,
73,
125)"><font color="black" face="Calibri" size="2"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">462
Solar Way Drive<u1:p></u1:p></span></font></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,
73,
125)"><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:city w:st="on"><font
color="black" face="Calibri" size="2"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Hyde
Park</span></font></st1:city><font
face="Calibri" size="2"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">,
<st1:state w:st="on">VT</st1:state> <st1:postalcode
w:st="on">05655</st1:postalcode></span></font></st1:place><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<u1:p></u1:p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><font color="#1f497d"
face="Calibri" size="2"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D;font-weight:bold;font-style:italic"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.independentpowerllc.com">www.independentpowerllc.com</a>
<u1:p></u1:p></span></font></i></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,
73,
125)"><font color="black" face="Calibri" size="2"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">NABCEP
Certified
PV Installer<u1:p></u1:p></span></font></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,
73,
125)"><st1:state w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on"><font
color="black" face="Calibri" size="2"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Vermont</span></font></st1:place></st1:state><font
face="Calibri" size="2"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">
Solar
Partner<u1:p></u1:p></span></font></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,
73,
125)"><font color="black" face="Calibri" size="2"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">24
Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 <u1:p></u1:p></span></font></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,
73,
125)"><u1:p><font color="black" face="Calibri"
size="2"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span></font></u1:p></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,
73,
125)"><u1:p><font color="black" face="Calibri"
size="2"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span></font></u1:p></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,
73,
125)"><u1:p><font color="black" face="Calibri"
size="2"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span></font></u1:p></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid windowtext
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;
border-color:rgb(181,
196, 223) -moz-use-text-color
-moz-use-text-color">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font color="black"
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma"> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>]
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">On Behalf Of </span></b>Comet
Systems<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b>
Monday, January 16, 2012
10:21 AM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Howie@catamountsolar.com">Howie@catamountsolar.com</a>;
RE-wrenches<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b>
Re: [RE-wrenches] Request
for Gennie Recommendation<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New
Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">The
Generac QT and commercial units do not come with
an ATS, you can buy just the bare machine or have
a complete solution designed
for your load.<o:p></o:p></span></font><u1:p></u1:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times
New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt">The Generac
residential machines are good machines, as
long as you understand the intended use. We
install lots of them. They are only
designed to be used occasionally, for
residential backup. We get customers who
want to run their business all day on a 10KW
residential generator and are
disappointed that the generator won't last ten
years. They are a cheap,
lightweight and cost effective solution for
people who get occasional outages.<o:p></o:p></span></font><u1:p></u1:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times
New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt">If your customer has
worn out two generators already,
then (s)he needs to pay for a commercial level
product. A 22KW QT is not that
expensive and will last ten years at a
substantial load factor. If you give me
more information on the location, load factor
and loading, I can have
engineering recommend a solution for you.<o:p></o:p></span></font><u1:p></u1:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times
New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt">-- <br>
Chris Mason<o:p></o:p></span></font><u1:p></u1:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black"
face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt">President, Comet
Systems Ltd<o:p></o:p></span></font><u1:p></u1:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black"
face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt"><a
href="mailto:masonc@cometsystems.co"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">masonc@cometsystems.co</a><o:p></o:p></span></font><u1:p></u1:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black"
face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt"><a
href="http://www.cometsystems.co"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.cometsystems.co</a><o:p></o:p></span></font><u1:p></u1:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black"
face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt">Cell: 264.235.5670<o:p></o:p></span></font><u1:p></u1:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black"
face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt">Int: +1305.767.2094<o:p></o:p></span></font><u1:p></u1:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black"
face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt">Skype: netconcepts<o:p></o:p></span></font><u1:p></u1:p></p>
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