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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Wrenches,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Thank you for your patience (as I was busy all day). I appreciate the valid issues raised and good perspectives provided so far by the Wrenches. I will try
my best to clarify the hydrogen production issues as follow. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:.25in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">All lead acid batteries, flooded and VRLA require ventilation. Flooded lead acid generate much more hydrogen by design and require watering maintenance.
VRLA AGM, per design, have up to 99% hydrogen recombination, so production of hydrogen is much smaller, yet still release hydrogen and require ventilation to keep the hydrogen content between 1% to 2%. Sealed enclosure is no go in term of safety, as 4% hydrogen
content is highly explosive.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:.25in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Here are the (approximation) ranges for Hydrogen gassing rates of Trojan deep-cycle flooded batteries for:
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">ü<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Float Charging (2.20 VPC @ 25<sup>o</sup>C) 1.0 to
<b>2.5 </b>cc/hr/Ah/cell<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">ü<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Absorption Charging (2,47VPC @ 25<sup>o</sup>C) 2.5 to
<b>4.5</b> cc/hr/Ah/cell<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">ü<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Equalize Charging (2.58VPC @ 25<sup>o</sup>C) 4.5 to
<b>14.0</b> cc/hr/Ah/cell <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Please be advised that a range is given since Hydrogen production vary with the battery voltage during the said charge mode duration, quality of charge algorithm
to tapper the current vs. voltage and total duration, and, vary over the life of the battery, ageing of the battery and application specifics. To be on safe side, I recommend to consider the
<b>higher</b> approximate figure for conservative Hydrogen production value. Please note these are given at 77F (25C). Higher temperature will generate higher current levels and hopefully a temperature compensation feature of the voltage settings will take
place to mitigate the impact. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Example: Trojan Signature T-105: 225 Ah @ 6V @ C/20: 225 Ah x 3 cells x 4.5 cc/hr/Ah/cell = 3,040 cc/hr during the absorption charge, @ 25C. During equalization
@ 25C, production of hydrogen is intense: 225 x 3 x 14 = 9,450 cc/hr. Use these values as inputs for further calculations for ventilation requirements per applicable standards.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:.25in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">The “float charging” mentioned above is kind of confusing to many. Indeed, there should be no mention of gassing during “float” charge mode, since
we are below gassing voltage. It is mentioned for info here although not typical for deep-cycle products: the Hydrogen production is only a concern for UPS type of applications, where the battery stays at float charge for several days /months. Float charge
mode is actually meant in “float” applications to mitigate the self-discharge of the battery due to its natural self-discharge. Indeed, even the very small float charge current build up hydrogen over time. Note: VRLA technology will generate less Hydrogen
than flooded since the required float current will be less for VRLA technology (0.2 to 0.5% of C/20). Sorry for the confusion to cyclic applications minded Wrenches.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:.25in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:.25in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Here are the (approximation) range for Hydrogen gassing rates of Trojan VRLA AGM batteries for:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo4"><![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">ü<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Float Charging (2.25 VPC @25<sup>o</sup>C) 0.01 to 0.019 cc/hr/Ah/cell<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo4"><![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">ü<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Absorption Charging (2.45VPC@ 25<sup>o</sup>C) 0.019 to 0.025 cc/hr/Ah/cell<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo4"><![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">ü<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Boost Charging (2.39 VPC @25<sup>o</sup>C) 0.013 to 0.015 cc/hr/Ah/cell
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Please be advised the “boost” charging is only acceptable on VRLA AGM, not VRLA GEL. It has the same role as the regular equalization event: to equalize the
cells, although for a much lower voltage and very limited time. The “boost” charging is often not activated as a safety precaution on poor charge algorithms.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Please keep in mind that the above are approximations, as, when lead acid batteries issues are involved, “it depends” is the first words you hear from battery
OEM’s. Hope this is helps.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Good evening,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">John<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systems<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, January 06, 2012 6:20 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] battery venting; Corrosion<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hi John,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I am curious about what you saying "float or equalization". Here's my understanding: If the battery is able to accept all current presented, the electrochemical process, SO4 combining with H released through decomposition, is balanced and
with little excess gas released. When the electrolyte becomes saturated there is no more SO4 to recombine and gassing is raised significantly, the volume increasing relative to voltage. Thus, equalization charging produces the highest volume of H and O gas.
However, when the voltage is lowered to float, the current is at the lowest state, about 0.2 amps/100ah capacity, decomposition at that point is practically nil.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Am I missing something or did you mean to say during the <u>
acceptance</u> and equalization mode?<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Larry Crutcher<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">Starlight Solar Power Systems<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Jan 6, 2012, at 9:00 AM, John DeBoever wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<span class="apple-style-span"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Kent,</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Thank you for pointing at the units. Please note that:</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:-.25in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D">·</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D"> <span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">You
are looking for cc/hr/Ah/cell rates at float and equalization voltages.</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:-.25in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D">·</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D"> <span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Gassing
is a function of charging current (FLA: an ampere-hour of overcharge, i.e. during float or equalization mode, results in about 0.33 cc of H<sub>2</sub>O total gassing per cell)</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:-.25in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D">·</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D"> <span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">For
constant voltage (float or equalization) the current is a function of temperature and stage of battery life (plus any failure modes that begin to occur toward end-of-life)</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I’ll work up a response after a series of meetings.</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">John</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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