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Jeff,<br>
This might be one of those times to first determine where
responsibility lies for resolving this. Did the sign company fail to
give you adequate specs for the job? Did you fail to ask enough
questions? Did you give the sign company anything written that noted
that you would supply the lights, or that it was to be a DC-only
supply? Had you always supplied the lights on previous jobs with
this company? <br>
If substantial added costs are the sign company's legitimate
responsibility, they may be willing to risk losing the
manufacturer's warranty.<br>
Hate it when lack of adequate communication bites me on the butt...<br>
Allan<br>
<br>
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<font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><b>Allan Sindelar</b></font><br>
<small><a href="mailto:Allan@positiveenergysolar.com"><font
color="#000099" face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><u>Allan@positiveenergysolar.com</u></font></a></small><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><br>
<span style="font-size: 10pt;">NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic
Installer<br>
NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional<br>
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician<br>
<b>Positive Energy, Inc.</b><br>
3201 Calle Marie<br>
Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507<br>
<b>505 424-1112</b><br>
<a href="http://www.positiveenergysolar.com/" target="_blank"><u>www.positiveenergysolar.com</u></a><o:p></o:p></span></font>
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<br>
On 12/16/2011 12:15 PM, Jason Szumlanski wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:8EA9619B465C95438B31C92F854FB79692A662@exchange.fafcosolar.local"
type="cite">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);">Edison is screaming “I told you so.” Here we are,
converting DC to AC to DC to provide lighting. Damn you,
Tesla! </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Wingdings; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">J</span><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);">I got the same line from an LED manufacturer.
They will only warranty the lights using their 120VAC power
supply. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);">If you want to go forward, check out Glacial
Power’s LD series DC-DC LED Drivers. I’ve never used them,
but it seems to be a possible solution. Someone told me that
Texas Instruments is big into the LED driver market. You
might start there.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);">Jason Szumlanski<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif";
color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Fafco Solar</span><span
style="font-size: 4pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif";
color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border-right: medium none; border-width: 1pt
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padding: 3pt 0in 0in;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif";">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif";">
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>] <b>On
Behalf Of </b>Jeff Yago<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, December 16, 2011 1:25 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:conradg@cape.com">conradg@cape.com</a>; 'RE-wrenches'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] DC power for LED
lighting<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);">I have a local sign company that asked is to
provide a solar lighting system for a double sided sign they
were building for a large retirement community entrance. We
have provided many solar lighting systems just like this
over the years and sent them several examples. All our
systems have been turn-key in that we provided the 12 VDC
ground mounted LED flood lights with the separately pole
mounted solar module(S) and battery/controller box. We
“assumed” when we told them our system includes the LED
lights that they understood that we were providing the
lighting. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);">Unfortunately, when we arrived on the site to
install the solar system, they said they did not need our
LED lights, they wanted us to power the LED lights inside
the sign. We opened up the signs and found two 120 VAC
electronic LED power supplies. Each was clearly labeled as
providing a maximum of 5 amps at 12 VDC output, and each
powered a separate string of about 150 tiny plastic “blocks”
and each block contained 2 small LED lamps. We immediately
advised the client that the solar system was designed to
power our two 12 VDC flood lights and we would have to
totally tear out what we had just installed and go to a much
larger system that included an inverter, larger array, 120
VAC timing device, and replace the 2 conductor DC
underground wiring with 3-conductor AC wire and all this
would really increase $$$.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);">I said as an alternative, why can’t we just cut
out the two electronic120 VAC input LED drivers since we
are providing well regulated 12 VDC power direct from the
GEL battery. He checked with their LED lamp supplier and
they said they strongly disagree and will void warranty.
Since we are talking about almost 300 total LED devices my
client is afraid to give us the OK, even though we did run
them overnight and everything worked just fine. As I
recall, an LED needs something in the circuit to limit the
amp current, not the voltage flowing through it, or it will
just get brighter and brighter and then fail. However, I
thought almost all strings of separate LED lights already
had some kind of regulator built into each light block
otherwise those near the end of the string would be less
bright than those near the power source. Is this
correct??<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);">Finally, if strings of LEDs require some kind of
voltage or current regulator, I can’t believe they all have
to run on 120 VAC as indicated by this LED manufacturer who
offers no alternative. Any LED experts out there that can
point me to some type of DC-to-DC converter or current
regulator that can replace these 120VAC LED drivers?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);">Jeff Yago<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
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