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    I pulled the voltage temp coefficient off of an article from Solar
    Pro Magazine. It is indeed listed for Voc.  I have never seen a
    separate coefficient for Vmpp. Maybe we should use the Power mpp
    coefficient and then factor the slight rise in current by temp
    (which would make Vmpp even worse). My Solar world example shows a
    Pmpp coeff. of -0.47, while the current coeff. (short circuit
    though) is positive 0.04<br>
    so correcting just for voltage, that would be at or slightly worse
    than Bill's suggested  -0.5 coefficient for Vmpp.  Which would pull
    the Vmpp from 35 to 28 in my example, not 30.4 v. The degradation
    and mismatch Bill points out make sense, but is it really another
    15% combined?   Would it be fair to say different modules and
    manufacturers would degrade at different rates? Finally, the ambient
    temp I picked was the opposite of the NEC suggested ASHRAE low temp.
    Is that really the best number for calculating this? Or is that too
    extreme a temperature, that wouldn't occur most of the time?<br>
    <br>
    Now I have to correct that coefficient for my next class......but
    that's why I asked for everybody to look it over.<br>
    <br>
    Thanks Everyone,<br>
    <br>
    Ray<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    On 11/29/2011 8:08 PM, Doug Wells wrote:
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:EA73FC62-B72A-4D85-855B-358EFF82C279@thesolarspecialists.com"
      type="cite">Ray,
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>I agree with what you have calculated, but the temp. coef.
        listed is for a Voc.  For voltage sag, the temp. value would be
        a Vmp value and I don't know how much of a difference that
        makes.   I have seen some manufacturers offer a temp.
        coefficient for Vmp as well as Voc.  Not sure what the
        difference would be, but if it gets down to a few volts with the
        PE, it is would be worth checking.  </div>
      <div><br>
        <div>
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              <div>
                <div style="font-size: 12px; ">Doug Wells</div>
                <div style="font-size: 12px; ">The Solar Specialists</div>
                <div style="font-size: 12px; ">Morrisville, VT 05661</div>
                <div style="font-size: 12px; ">(p) 802-223-7014</div>
                <div style="font-size: 12px; ">(c) 802-498-5856</div>
                <div style="font-size: 12px; "><a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="http://www.thesolarspecialists.com">www.thesolarspecialists.com</a></div>
              </div>
            </div>
          </span>
        </div>
        <br>
        <div>
          <div>On Nov 29, 2011, at 5:55 PM, Ray Walters wrote:</div>
          <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
          <meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
            http-equiv="Content-Type">
          <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> I'm prepping for a
            class on this very subject tonight, so I'll just wrap up
            everybody's good points:<br>
            V min = Vmpp x (1- temp diff x Temp coefficient)<br>
            <br>
            So first, I'd take your ambient temp from ASHRAE Extreme
            Annual Mean Maximum, then add Scott's adder (ie roof mount
            off 6"  = +30C) so let's say the ASHRAE # is 35C, then you
            have 30 + 35 = 65C cell temp<br>
            then, 65C - 25C(STC) = a differential of 40 deg C from
            standard test conditions<br>
            <br>
            The Aug/ Sept 2010 edition of Solar Pro shows the
            coefficients for numerous modules, <br>
            Solar world for example is -0.33 %/degC<br>
            <br>
            With a 40 degC differential then, the voltage would change
            by 40 x .33, or 13.2%<br>
            <br>
            So just assuming Vmpp =  35v, the adjustment would be 35v x
            (100%-13.2%), or 86.8% of 35v, <br>
            which gives a Volt min of 30.4 v<br>
            <br>
            Somebody please correct my math if I got that wrong.<br>
            Also probably more interesting is the actual Power
            coefficient, which shows the total power losses from higher
            temperatures, not just voltage. The calculation would be
            similar.<br>
            <br>
            Ray<br>
            <br>
            On 11/29/2011 2:07 PM, Darryl Thayer wrote:
            <blockquote
              cite="mid:1322600875.70711.YahooMailNeo@web39313.mail.mud.yahoo.com"
              type="cite">
              <div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff;
                font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12pt">
                <div><span>I am on road so I have no texts with me, but
                    the same formula applies about 0.4% per degree (less
                    voltage) or use the module label  voltage
                    coefficent.  However you must use the MPPT voltage
                    and the temperature = (temperature ambient (2%
                    high) plus roof temperature warming)  The roof
                    temperature is hard to find good values because it
                    depends upon spacing between roof and module.  I add
                    15 deg C for most situations.  </span></div>
                <div><span></span> </div>
                <div><span>Best I can do from memory.</span></div>
                <div><span>DT</span></div>
                <div><br>
                </div>
                <div style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif;
                  font-size: 12pt;">
                  <div style="font-family: times new roman, new york,
                    times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <font face="Arial"
                      size="2"> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b>
                      Kirk Herander <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
                        href="mailto:kirk@vtsolar.com"><kirk@vtsolar.com></a><br>
                      <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b>
                      RE-wrenches <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
                        href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"><re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org></a>
                      <br>
                      <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b>
                      Tuesday, November 29, 2011 1:48 PM<br>
                      <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b>
                      [RE-wrenches] calculating low string voltage<br>
                    </font> <br>
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                        <div class="yiv1276106914WordSection1">
                          <div class="yiv1276106914MsoNormal">I am in
                            debate with a PE over calculation of low
                            voltage of a series string on a hot day. He
                            insists that an arbitrary high cell temp is
                            factored in, not just ambient temperature.
                            Could someone please give an accepted
                            formula for this calculation? Thanks. I
                            cannot find a clear reference to low voltage
                            calculation on a hot day (but every
                            reference material is clear on how to
                            calculate high voltage on a cold day).</div>
                          <div class="yiv1276106914MsoNormal">  </div>
                          <div class="yiv1276106914MsoNormal">Kirk
                            Herander</div>
                          <div class="yiv1276106914MsoNormal">VT Solar,
                            LLC</div>
                          <div class="yiv1276106914MsoNormal">dba
                            Vermont Solar Engineering</div>
                          <div class="yiv1276106914MsoNormal">NABCEP<sup>TM
                            </sup>Certified installer Charter Member</div>
                          <div class="yiv1276106914MsoNormal">NYSERDA-eligible

                            Installer</div>
                          <div class="yiv1276106914MsoNormal">VT RE
                            Incentive Program Partner</div>
                          <div class="yiv1276106914MsoNormal">  </div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
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