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Geez Joel, we need to start a solar museum for all the cool old
stuff you have. <br>
I just did a bit of research, and it seems lux is a weighted measure
based on visible light present, while irradiation is more a total
power measurement. I guess we really need to have two different
meters to measure how much light passes through a module.<br>
If we were to go a step further and characterize the quality of
light present, we might need a spectral analyzer to determine
whether its "cool white" or "daylight", etc. As always, the more you
think about something, the more complicated it becomes.<br>
<br>
Ray Walters<br>
<br>
On 11/3/2011 11:39 AM, Joel Davidson wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:FFE6CAA776B146A7B1880793FC1B2EA2@JOEL"
type="cite">
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<div><font face="Arial" size="2">See-thru solar cells have been
around for decades. Arco Solar made 4% efficient amorphous
silicon modules and car sunroofs in 1984 that were tinted
brown like sunglasses. I got a 12-inch square see-thru
laminate that still works.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">I also have a 6.75-inch square
sample of MSK Corp's amorphous silicon PV-TV solar panels.
They were developed in conjunction with Kaneka and Japanese
architects Taiyo Industries. The full-size glass panels,
measure 1-meter square. In addition to producing
electricity, they provide thermal insulation, solar heat gain
protection and protection from ultra violet rays. During the
manufacturing process, a laser inscribes a series of ultra
fine lines onto the panel to allow 10 percent of visible light
to be transmitted through the glass, enough for sufficient
light to enter a building even during cloudy conditions while
protecting against excessive solar gain. Amorphous silicon
solar cells with 10 percent, 5 percent or 1 percent
transparency are placed between two sheets of glass
to generate power. This solar panel is called PV-TV because it
is also used as a display screen on the outside of buildings.
See <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.metropolismag.com/story/20040727/pv-tv-a-multifunctional-eco-friendly-building-material">http://www.metropolismag.com/story/20040727/pv-tv-a-multifunctional-eco-friendly-building-material</a></font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">The Tiger Woods Learning Center
in Anaheim and other buildings have see-thru Schott solar
modules with different amounts of transparency. See <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.solardesign.com/library/pdf/tiger-woods-solar-curtain-wall.pdf">http://www.solardesign.com/library/pdf/tiger-woods-solar-curtain-wall.pdf</a></font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Also, opaque cell solar
modules are manufactured with various cell spacings for BIPV
applications.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">I have a Mastech Light Meter
LX1010B in my tool kit for measuring lux. This handy tool
costs around $20.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Joel Davidson</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT:
5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color:
black"><b>From:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
title="electrichi01@yahoo.com"
href="mailto:electrichi01@yahoo.com">Keith Cronin</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>To:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true" title="solarphil@gmail.com"
href="mailto:solarphil@gmail.com">Phil Undercuffler</a> ; <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
title="re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches</a>
</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November
02, 2011 9:50 PM</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches]
Bifacial modules</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff; FONT-FAMILY: times new
roman, new york, times, serif; COLOR: #000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<div><span>Thanks everyone for the feedback!</span></div>
<div><span><br>
</span></div>
<div><span>Thinking that the manu's can space cells
accordingly on the surface of the glass and create
whatever % light the end user wants to seep through.</span></div>
<div><span><br>
</span></div>
<div><span>The % of light must slide between 5-15%, depending
on manu's specs. Architecture can meet solar and increase
the applicability of the products.</span></div>
<div><span><br>
</span></div>
<div><span>Perhaps someday, they can make the cells
see-through (or almost), like glass.......? Now that opens
up possibilities! </span></div>
<div> </div>
<div>Aloha,<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>Keith<br>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: 'times new roman', 'new york',
times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: 'times new roman', 'new york',
times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><font face="Arial"
size="2">
<hr size="1"> <b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</span></b>
Phil Undercuffler <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:solarphil@gmail.com"><solarphil@gmail.com></a><br>
<b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</span></b>
Keith Cronin <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:electrichi01@yahoo.com"><electrichi01@yahoo.com></a>;
RE-wrenches <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"><re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org></a><br>
<b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Cc:</span></b> Bill
Brooks <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:billbrooks7@yahoo.com"><billbrooks7@yahoo.com></a><br>
<b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</span></b>
Wednesday, November 2, 2011 9:18 AM<br>
<b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</span></b>
Re: [RE-wrenches] Bifacial modules<br>
</font><br>
<div id="yiv986221286"><font
class="yiv986221286Apple-style-span" face="arial,
helvetica, sans-serif">We've got an array of Silicon
Energy modules "out back," and in the interests of
scientific discovery and procrastinating from what I
really am supposed to be doing, Kelly, Seth and I
just ran a few experiments to see if we can quantify
the amount of irradiation that makes it through the
array.</font>
<div><font class="yiv986221286Apple-style-span"
face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font class="yiv986221286Apple-style-span"
face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Using a
Kyocera module as our reference, we measured ISC
with the module in the plane of the array, then
moved the module to the same orientation but
approximately 12 feet behind and in the shade of
the SE array, and again measured ISC. Sun
conditions were light wispy clouds, guesstimated
800 W/M2 (pretty darned good for Arlington WA this
time o' year), 10:30 local time. We measured 5.9A
ISC in front of the array, and 610 milliamps when
in the shade the array, leading us to say that
just over 10% of the available sun will make it to
your orchids.</font></div>
<div><font class="yiv986221286Apple-style-span"
face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font class="yiv986221286Apple-style-span"
face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">It should be
noted that there is a opaque backing behind each
SE cell, so the only light that makes it through
is through the intercell gaps. I've used Sanyo
doubles before, and in those modules the cells are
slightly translucent, so the sun is somewhat
visible through the body of the cell itself as
well -- sort of like looking through very dark
sunglasses. In either case, the illumination on
objects behind the array is a dappled, dynamic
light. As Bill says, it's pretty cool from an
aesthetic point of view. My personal .02 is that
there is no finer place to put an array than a
shade structure using clear modules. It keeps
everything off the roof, gives shade and makes for
a premium installation option.</font>
<div><font size="2"><font
face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br
clear="all">
</font></font>Phil
<div>-----------</div>
<div><span style="LINE-HEIGHT: 15px; FONT-FAMILY:
Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 12px">"</span><span
style="LINE-HEIGHT: 15px; FONT-FAMILY: Arial,
Helvetica, sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 12px">When
we learn how to store electricity, we will
cease being apes ourselves; until then we are
tailless orangutans. You see, we should
utilize natural forces and thus get all of our
power. Sunshine is a form of energy, and the
winds and the tides are manifestations of
energy. </span><span style="LINE-HEIGHT:
15px; FONT-FAMILY: Arial, Helvetica,
sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 12px">Do we use them?
Oh, no! We burn up wood and coal, as renters
burn up the front fence for fuel. We live like
squatters, not as if we owned the property. </span></div>
<div><span style="LINE-HEIGHT: 15px; FONT-FAMILY:
Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 12px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="LINE-HEIGHT: 15px; FONT-FAMILY:
Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 12px"></span><span
style="LINE-HEIGHT: 15px; FONT-FAMILY: Arial,
Helvetica, sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 12px">There
must surely come a time when heat and power
will be stored in unlimited quantities in
every community, all gathered by natural
forces."</span></div>
<div><span style="LINE-HEIGHT: 15px; FONT-FAMILY:
Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 12px">--
Thomas Edison --</span></div>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="yiv986221286gmail_quote">On Tue, Nov
1, 2011 at 7:48 PM, Keith Cronin <span
dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:electrichi01@yahoo.com"
rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
ymailto="mailto:electrichi01@yahoo.com">electrichi01@yahoo.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid;
MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class="yiv986221286gmail_quote">
<div>
<div style="BACKGROUND-COLOR:
rgb(255,255,255); FONT-FAMILY: 'times new
roman', 'new york', times, serif; COLOR:
rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<div><span>Bill</span></div>
<div><span><br>
</span></div>
<div><span>Appreciate the feedback. One of
the questions that I'm seeking to
determine- how much light will filter
through the spaces between the cells
to the surface below?</span></div>
<div><span><br>
</span></div>
<div><span>Lets say for someone that wants
to grow orchids- they need low light,
as an example.</span></div>
<div><span><br>
</span></div>
<div><span>Wondering how much light is
diffused through the panels to be able
to do things like grow orchids and or
have filtered light to work?</span></div>
<div><span><br>
</span></div>
<div><span>As an example: Do any of you
have irradiance measurements on any
carports that have done bifacials and
determined how many watts sq m are
below?</span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><font color="#888888">Keith<br>
</font>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">
<hr size="1"> <b><span
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</span></b>
Bill Brooks <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:billbrooks7@yahoo.com"
rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
ymailto="mailto:billbrooks7@yahoo.com">billbrooks7@yahoo.com</a>><br>
<b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:
bold">To:</span></b> 'Keith
Cronin' <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:electrichi01@yahoo.com"
rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
ymailto="mailto:electrichi01@yahoo.com">electrichi01@yahoo.com</a>>;
'RE-wrenches' <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"
rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
ymailto="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>><br>
<b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:
bold">Sent:</span></b>
Tuesday, November 1, 2011 11:44
AM<br>
<b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:
bold">Subject:</span></b>
RE: [RE-wrenches] Bifacial
modules<br>
</font></div>
<div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:
sans-serif; COLOR:
rgb(31,73,125);
FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Keith,</span></div>
<div><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:
sans-serif; COLOR:
rgb(31,73,125);
FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></span> </div>
<div><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:
sans-serif; COLOR:
rgb(31,73,125);
FONT-SIZE: 11pt">This
is easy to test.
Simple take an
irradiance sensor,
turn it upside-down
and test the
irradiance on the
bottom surface of any
PV array. It will vary
greatly based on
exposure to reflected
light and so on, but
it will rarely be
above 100 W/m^2. 10%
improvement is an
absolute maximum for
any bifacial
technology, and that
is on the high side.
Any claims above 10%
are ignoring the
physics of sunlight,
reflectance of typical
materials, and PV.</span></div>
<div><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:
sans-serif; COLOR:
rgb(31,73,125);
FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></span> </div>
<div><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:
sans-serif; COLOR:
rgb(31,73,125);
FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Nothing
wrong with bi-facials.
They are beautiful to
look at. I would buy
them based on
aesthetics, not on
performance.</span></div>
<div><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:
sans-serif; COLOR:
rgb(31,73,125);
FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></span> </div>
<div><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:
sans-serif; COLOR:
rgb(31,73,125);
FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Bill.</span></div>
<div><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:
sans-serif; COLOR:
rgb(31,73,125);
FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></span> </div>
<div>
<div
style="BORDER-BOTTOM:
medium none;
BORDER-LEFT: medium
none; PADDING-BOTTOM:
0in; PADDING-LEFT:
0in; PADDING-RIGHT:
0in; BORDER-TOP:
#b5c4df 1pt solid;
BORDER-RIGHT: medium
none; PADDING-TOP:
3pt">
<div><b><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:
sans-serif;
FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</span></b><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:
sans-serif;
FONT-SIZE: 10pt">
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" rel="nofollow"
target="_blank"
ymailto="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>
[mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" rel="nofollow"
target="_blank"
ymailto="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Keith
Cronin<br>
<b>Sent:</b>
Tuesday, November
01, 2011 1:04 PM<br>
<b>To:</b>
RE-Wrenches<br>
<b>Subject:</b>
[RE-wrenches]
Bifacial modules</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div> </div>
<div>
<div>
<div
style="BACKGROUND:
white"><span
style="COLOR:
black">Hi</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div
style="BACKGROUND:
white"><span
style="COLOR:
black"></span> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div
style="BACKGROUND:
white"><span
style="COLOR:
black">Was
wondering if any
of you have
installed bifacial
modules and know
what the % of
light that comes
through to a
surface below the
modules?</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div
style="BACKGROUND:
white"><span
style="COLOR:
black"></span> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div
style="BACKGROUND:
white"><span
style="COLOR:
black">Looking for
a canopy type of
installation/
application and
wondered if you
have any #'s?</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div
style="BACKGROUND:
white"><span
style="COLOR:
black"></span> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div
style="BACKGROUND:
white"><span
style="COLOR:
black">Thank you~</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div
style="BACKGROUND:
white"><span
style="COLOR:
black"></span> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div
style="MARGIN-BOTTOM:
12pt; BACKGROUND:
white"><span
style="COLOR:
black">Aloha,</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div
style="BACKGROUND:
white"><span
style="COLOR:
black">Keith</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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