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<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=093400319-11102011><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial>Ron,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=093400319-11102011><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=093400319-11102011><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial>Sounds like you might have a voltage drop in the system at
point of measurement. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=093400319-11102011><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=093400319-11102011><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial>A large voltage drop can happen for a few valid
reasons.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=093400319-11102011><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial>1. High current demand. > Trimetric or better yet
PentaMetric can show this demand.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=093400319-11102011><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial>2. Poor Cable connection. Visual / Thermal inspection or
local Vdc measurement along the cable chain.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=093400319-11102011><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial>3. Low to moderate current demand with low SOC. Check the MX60
Logging function to see when the last day "Float" happened, i.e. how many
minutes of Float in the last 60 days, etc. If there are none or few, then you
still might be at a low SOC. (Trimetric or better yet PentaMetric can show
the SOC as well).</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=093400319-11102011><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=093400319-11102011><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial>Of course, not sure what happened to the Sunfrost, but a DC
Clamp meter, might determine if it is normal now.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=093400319-11102011><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=093400319-11102011><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial>good luck,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=093400319-11102011><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=093400319-11102011><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial>Maverick</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=093400319-11102011><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial></FONT></SPAN> </DIV><BR>
<DIV dir=ltr lang=en-us class=OutlookMessageHeader align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><B>From:</B> re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Ron
Young<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, October 11, 2011 2:00 PM<BR><B>To:</B>
RE-wrenches<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [RE-wrenches] intermittent battery
problem<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>Wrenches,
<DIV>I received some additional info from the customer this morning. They have
asked me to hold off my visit until they get a few more clues but some of what
they are telling me doesn't necessarily jive with a sulphated battery. Would
appreciate comments - here's a quote from their email:
<DIV><BR>
<DIV><I>Hi Ron</I>
<DIV><I>Still having problems with system. If the batteries are sulphated
would the system return to full charge when you remove the load??? Checked
our hydrometer against another and it is working fine. Batteries are all either
in the green or on the line between green and blue this morning. Display
showed the batteries at 25.2 when we got up this morning. About 10:30 this
morning---I had just tested all batteries with the hydrometer---the readings
dropped to 23.8. Retested batteries---they were in the green. I
turned off all loads----the readings returned to 25.2. I turned on the
Sunfrost---readings immediately dropped to 23.8. I turned off the
Sunfrost--- readings returned to 25.2. I turned on all lights in the house
and the readings remained at 25.2. I turned the Sunfrost back on and the
readings again stayed at 25.2. The one other thing that happened in the
meantime is that the sun came out and we started buying power from the solar
system---.1-.3kw. This all seems to be part of a pattern where as soon as
we start buying power---whether from sun, wind or gen. the system returns to
normal---But we are still suspicious of the Sunfrost because of our problems a
few months back. </I></DIV>
<DIV><I><BR></I></DIV>
<DIV>Ron Young</DIV>
<DIV>earthRight Products - <A
href="http://Solareagle.com">Solareagle.com</A></DIV>
<DIV>Alternative Energy Solutions ~ Renewable Energy Products</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>On 2011-10-09, at 11:56 AM, Ron Young wrote:</DIV><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV
style="WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space">As
always, impressed and gratified by the number of thoughtful replies from
Wrenches, thank you again! It looks like a hefty EQ is in order. I've
successfully recovered badly sulphated batteries by putting them through
multiple charge/EQ/discharge cycles on more than occasion. Will check out that
Sunfrost as well. My mistake was believing that the hydrometer could tell the
truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth but apparently it takes an
amp hour meter to keep it honest.
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Ron Young</DIV>
<DIV>
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<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11px" class=Apple-style-span><I><SPAN
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<DIV
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<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; FONT: 12px Helvetica">earthRight
Products - <A href="http://Solareagle.com/">Solareagle.com</A></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT style="FONT: 12px Helvetica" size=3
face=Helvetica>Alternative Energy Solutions ~ Renewable Energy
Products</FONT></DIV></DIV></DIV></SPAN></I></SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV style="TEXT-ALIGN: center; MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span
color=#0a8000 size=6 face=Webdings><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 24px"
class=Apple-style-span><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica; FONT-SIZE: 11px"
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<DIV
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<DIV>
<DIV>On 2011-10-09, at 11:12 AM, Jonathan Hill wrote:</DIV><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV
style="WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space">Ron-
<DIV>We've seen this issue before,and it is almost always due to badly
sulfated batteries. I'd try a LONG (8-12 hrs) EQ charge at 32 volts. We've
done this with Hawkers and fixed the problem. I believe the Surrettes could
handle this kind of charge, though you might contact Jamie Surrette.</DIV>
<DIV><BR>
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<DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span size=4><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14px"
class=Apple-style-span>Jonathan Hill, senior system design
engineer</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span size=4><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14px"
class=Apple-style-span>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><B>Sierra Solar Systems</B></DIV>
<DIV>563C Idaho Maryland Road</DIV>
<DIV>Grass Valley, CA 95945</DIV>
<DIV>Celebrating our 31st year in solar!</DIV>
<DIV>tech info and foreign orders: (530) 273-6754 </DIV>
<DIV>order line: (888) ON-SOLAR (US
only) FAX: (530) 273-1760</DIV>
<DIV>e-mail: <<A
href="mailto:solarjon@sierrasolar.com">mailto:solarjon@sierrasolar.com</A>></DIV>
<DIV>world wide web: <<A
href="http://www.sierrasolar.com/">http://www.sierrasolar.com</A>></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN
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class=Apple-style-span><A
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video
at: <BR>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WY-0UuabPEk</A></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14px" class=Apple-style-span>Because of the
high volume of e-mail to which I respond, please</SPAN><SPAN
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<DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span size=4><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14px"
class=Apple-style-span>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>leave _all_ of the previous messages (unless it's unbearable) in</DIV>
<DIV> your reply so I can better remember your original
message.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline><SPAN></SPAN><SPAN></SPAN><SPAN></SPAN><SPAN></SPAN><SPAN></SPAN><SPAN></SPAN><SPAN><SPAN><att6eade.png></SPAN></SPAN>
</DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Oct 8, 2011, at 6:42 PM, Ron Young wrote:</DIV><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV
style="WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space">Thanks
Bob but he has a tubular type hydrometer, not the pointer type. They're
usually ok but I'll check it against mine when I go there which looks like
a certainty.
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>They EQ the batteries on a regular basis as per my instructions (they
say) but will have to nail them down on that. The small 2500w generator
worries me but they have 800w solar and a Whisper 100. The wind blows a
lot. Inverter is a 3524 Outback.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Ron</DIV>
<DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>On 2011-10-08, at 5:07 PM, bob ellison wrote:</DIV><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><SPAN
style="WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: medium Candara; WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px"
class=Apple-style-span>
<DIV
style="WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space"
lang=EN-US vlink="purple" link="blue">
<DIV style="page: WordSection1" class=WordSection1>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT
color=black size=4 face=Calibri><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 14pt">I
bet he has a cheap pointer type hydrometer, I have seen them be way off
from reality.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT
color=black size=4 face=Calibri><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 14pt">My
guess is that the gravity is low the voltage changes quickly, specific
gravity changes slowly in a battery bank.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT
color=black size=4 face=Calibri><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 14pt">To
fully charge a 24 volt bank you need to get it to 29 + volts and keep it
there for several hours, depending on the battery bank
size.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT
color=black size=4 face=Calibri><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 14pt">Charging
it to 25.4 is nothing in the long run.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT
color=black size=4 face=Calibri><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 14pt">Give
them a LONG full charge, what are the inverters? Does it ever get an EQ
charge?<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT
color=black size=4 face=Calibri><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 14pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT
color=black size=4 face=Calibri><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 14pt">Bob
Ellison<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT
color=black size=4 face=Calibri><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 14pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-BOTTOM-STYLE: none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-RIGHT-STYLE: none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-LEFT-STYLE: none; BORDER-TOP: rgb(181,196,223) 1pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><B><FONT
size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma, sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma, sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A
style="COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline"
href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</A><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org]<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN></SPAN></B>Ron
Young<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Saturday, October 08, 2011 2:02
PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>RE-wrenches<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>[RE-wrenches] intermittent
battery problem<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Howdy
Wrenches,<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">One of my
customers that lives 3 hours out in the back country is having an
intermittent problem that I haven't encountered before. The batteries
drop rapidly in voltage but hydrometer readings are in the green.
Turning off the inverter and just using DC doesn't change anything.
Meters on the Mate, Outback MX and Whisper controller are all the same
so it's not a metering problem. On the way to bed the batteries were at
25.4, overnight with no loads they dropped to 22.9 then a short 15 min.
charge with a generator brings the batteries back up and two hours later
they are at 25.8. This scenario has occurred several times and then
doesn't appear for a day or two.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">It doesn't
seem to be sulfation as the batteries are reading good on the hydrometer
every time. All cells check out. The inverter doesn't seem to be the
problem. They have a Sunfrost on a separate DC circuit. It sounds like
an intermittent circuit problem or electronics issue. Customer has
checked and tightened all the connections he can get at but hasn't been
inside the components. Would appreciate any suggestions or clues before
I make the trip.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT
color=black size=1 face=Helvetica><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica, sans-serif; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 6pt">Ron
Young<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT
color=black size=1 face=Helvetica><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica, sans-serif; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 6pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
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Products -<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A
style="COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline"
href="http://Solareagle.com/">Solareagle.com</A><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
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color=black size=1 face=Helvetica><SPAN
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