<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><div><span>I think David id correct as usual. By your description the solar array sounds too small, the customer is depending upon the wind genny and even in a good site the W100 can not supply the load. . </span></div><div><span></span> </div><div><span>I have a customer with similar simtoms batteries seemed to diacharge very quickly, the solar would seem to recharge during the day but batteries go flat quickly, (batteries 5 years old) customer was sure the battrery bank (Surretts) was DOA. When I arrived my optical hydrometer said the batteries were low. I set the genney (with Outback inverters) to charge at C/20 and let it run all day, 8 hrs, at end of day batteries were still not charged. So I let genney run all night, next morning (20 hrs run time) batteries
were close to full charge (on some of the cells) I set it to charge at C/30 and let the Genney run all day and all night again.(total run time over 40 hrs) I explained to the customer that during the winter the sun is less than summer and the system had probibly been low for quite some time. The Customer has been trouble free for three years on the same battery set. (these batteries have been in service over 8 years). BTW I had him set the charge efficiency at 80% from then on. </span></div><div><br></div><div style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><div style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"><font size="2" face="Arial"><div style="margin: 5px 0px; padding: 0px; border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); height: 0px; line-height: 0; font-size: 0px;" class="hr" contentEditable="false" readonly="true"></div><b><span
style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> David Katz <dkatz@aeesolar.com><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> "'re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org'" <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Saturday, October 8, 2011 8:55 PM<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [RE-wrenches] intermittent battery problem<br></font><br>
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How many years have they been off grid. It is pretty common for people to have problems when the days get shorter and the nights get longer in the fall. My guess is he gets about 30 amps of charge using a 2500 watt generator and probably less if loads are on when they charge. You should tell them they need to run the generator for 40 hours to catch up. Customers never like to hear that. A trimetric will help them keep up.<br>David Katz</font><br> <br>
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<b>From</b>: Ron Young [mailto:solareagle@solareagle.com]
<br><b>Sent</b>: Saturday, October 08, 2011 06:42 PM<br><b>To</b>: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>
<br><b>Subject</b>: Re: [RE-wrenches] intermittent battery problem
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Thanks Bob but he has a tubular type hydrometer, not the pointer type. They're usually ok but I'll check it against mine when I go there which looks like a certainty.<div><br></div><div>They EQ the batteries on a regular basis as per my instructions (they say) but will have to nail them down on that. The small 2500w generator worries me but they have 800w solar and a Whisper 100. The wind blows a lot. Inverter is a 3524 Outback.</div><div><br></div><div>Ron</div><div><br><div><div>On 2011-10-08, at 5:07 PM, bob ellison wrote:</div><br class="yiv10653878Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><span style="font:/normal Candara; text-transform: none; text-indent: 0px; letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: 0px; white-space: normal; border-collapse: separate; orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class="yiv10653878Apple-style-span"><div style="word-wrap: break-word;" lang="EN-US"><div class="yiv10653878WordSection1"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; font-family:
serif; font-size: 12pt;"><font color="black" size="4" face="Calibri"><span style="color: black; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14pt;">I bet he has a cheap pointer type hydrometer, I have seen them be way off from reality.</span></font></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; font-family: serif; font-size: 12pt;"><font color="black" size="4" face="Calibri"><span style="color: black; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14pt;">My guess is that the gravity is low the voltage changes quickly, specific gravity changes slowly in a battery bank.</span></font></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; font-family: serif; font-size: 12pt;"><font color="black" size="4" face="Calibri"><span style="color: black; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14pt;">To fully charge a 24 volt bank you need to get it to 29 + volts and keep it there for several hours, depending on the battery bank size.</span></font></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;
font-family: serif; font-size: 12pt;"><font color="black" size="4" face="Calibri"><span style="color: black; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14pt;">Charging it to 25.4 is nothing in the long run.</span></font></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; font-family: serif; font-size: 12pt;"><font color="black" size="4" face="Calibri"><span style="color: black; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14pt;">Give them a LONG full charge, what are the inverters? Does it ever get an EQ charge?</span></font></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; font-family: serif; font-size: 12pt;"><font color="black" size="4" face="Calibri"><span style="color: black; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14pt;"> </span></font></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; font-family: serif; font-size: 12pt;"><font color="black" size="4" face="Calibri"><span style="color: black; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14pt;">Bob
Ellison</span></font></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; font-family: serif; font-size: 12pt;"><font color="black" size="4" face="Calibri"><span style="color: black; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14pt;"> </span></font></div><div><div style="border-style: solid none none; padding: 3pt 0in 0in; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; font-family: serif; font-size: 12pt;"><b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; font-weight: bold;">From:</span></font></b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;"><span class="yiv10653878Apple-converted-space"> </span><a style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
ymailto="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><span class="yiv10653878Apple-converted-space"> </span>[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org]<span class="yiv10653878Apple-converted-space"> </span><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">On Behalf Of<span class="yiv10653878Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b>Ron Young<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b><span class="yiv10653878Apple-converted-space"> </span>Saturday, October 08, 2011 2:02 PM<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b><span class="yiv10653878Apple-converted-space"> </span>RE-wrenches<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b><span class="yiv10653878Apple-converted-space"> </span>[RE-wrenches] intermittent battery problem</span></font></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; font-family: serif; font-size: 12pt;"><font size="3" face="Times
New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; font-family: serif; font-size: 12pt;"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Howdy Wrenches,</span></font></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; font-family: serif; font-size: 12pt;"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; font-family: serif; font-size: 12pt;"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">One of my customers that lives 3 hours out in the back country is having an intermittent problem that I haven't encountered before. The batteries drop rapidly in voltage but hydrometer readings are in the green. Turning off the inverter and just using DC doesn't change anything. Meters on the Mate, Outback MX and Whisper controller are all the same so it's not a metering problem. On the way to bed
the batteries were at 25.4, overnight with no loads they dropped to 22.9 then a short 15 min. charge with a generator brings the batteries back up and two hours later they are at 25.8. This scenario has occurred several times and then doesn't appear for a day or two.</span></font></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; font-family: serif; font-size: 12pt;"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; font-family: serif; font-size: 12pt;"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">It doesn't seem to be sulfation as the batteries are reading good on the hydrometer every time. All cells check out. The inverter doesn't seem to be the problem. They have a Sunfrost on a separate DC circuit. It sounds like an intermittent circuit problem or electronics issue. Customer has checked and tightened all the connections he can get at but hasn't
been inside the components. Would appreciate any suggestions or clues before I make the trip.</span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; font-family: serif; font-size: 12pt;"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></div></div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; font-family: serif; font-size: 12pt;"><font color="black" size="1" face="Helvetica"><span style="color: black; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 6pt;">Ron Young</span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; font-family: serif; font-size: 12pt;"><font color="black" size="1" face="Helvetica"><span style="color: black; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 6pt;"> </span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; font-family: serif; font-size: 12pt;"><font color="black" size="1" face="Helvetica"><span style="color: black; font-family:
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