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Phil and Wrenches,<br>
Thank you for the response; good food for thought. <br>
<br>
We looked at Aerovironment as a result of your suggestion, but it
appears to be out of production and unavailable. <br>
<br>
Kent's suggestion to use the gennie starting battery also makes
sense, as the battery would be recharged daily and the load is
negligible. I also suspect that a Morningstar SunLight controller
with a small PV module would provide the daily start/stop signal to
the Relay Driver. <br>
<br>
However, as Kent points out, finding a relay would be difficult, as
the customer is looking at controlling multiple (four?) SQF pumps
from AC or their respective arrays. That's too many poles at too
high a DC voltage to prevent arcing - multiple relays with 240V AC
coils paralleled would handle control of the relays, but can anyone
suggest a relay that can handle 100-150 VDC array voltage? MDI
mercury contactors, as were used in early APT/Pulse powercenters,
come to mind, available in 1-3 poles. Any better ideas?<br>
<br>
While solutions to some of the issues are workable, ultimately I
don't see an easy way to accomplish what he wants to do. He's
talking 10-12 gpm continuously 24/7. That's 30gpm raised 400' if
array-direct, more than any solar pumps I know can supply. Thus the
diesel generator for night operation. Ranchers are used to diesel
generators.<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-signature">
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<title></title>
<font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><b>Allan Sindelar</b></font><br>
<small><a href="mailto:Allan@positiveenergysolar.com"><font
color="#000099" face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><u>Allan@positiveenergysolar.com</u></font></a></small><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><br>
<span style="font-size: 10pt;">NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic
Installer<br>
NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional<br>
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician<br>
<b>Positive Energy, Inc.</b><br>
3201 Calle Marie<br>
Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507<br>
<b>505 424-1112</b><br>
<a href="http://www.positiveenergysolar.com/" target="_blank"><u>www.positiveenergysolar.com</u></a><o:p></o:p></span></font>
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<br>
On 7/5/2011 6:57 PM, Phil Undercuffler wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAPLQxE+_HuF1k1wqxzt0Q5_7FHyC_Kd=5Cs0Dr=aJujbUWgt9g@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite"><font size="2"><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Use
an ac charger to charge a small battery when the generator
runs each evening, and then power a timer or photosensor from
the battery. Sears, <$40. I wouldn't worry about the
phantom load of the timer -- you're running an 8kW diesel
genset throughout the night. It oughta keep up. <br
clear="all">
</font></font>
<div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica,
sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica,
sans-serif">The question I can't answer is how this makes
sense, with diesel above $4/gallon and service every 100
hours. Did you look at an Aerovironment UPC controller
running array direct with a standard AC pump? </font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica,
sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div>Phil
<div>-----------</div>
<div><span style="font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size: 12px; line-height: 15px;">"</span><span
style="font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:
12px; line-height: 15px;">When we learn how to store
electricity, we will cease being apes ourselves; until
then we are tailless orangutans. You see, we should
utilize natural forces and thus get all of our power.
Sunshine is a form of energy, and the winds and the tides
are manifestations of energy. </span><span
style="font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:
12px; line-height: 15px;">Do we use them? Oh, no! We burn
up wood and coal, as renters burn up the front fence for
fuel. We live like squatters, not as if we owned the
property. </span></div>
<div><span style="font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size: 12px; line-height: 15px;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size: 12px; line-height: 15px;"></span><span
style="font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:
12px; line-height: 15px;">There must surely come a time
when heat and power will be stored in unlimited quantities
in every community, all gathered by natural forces."</span></div>
<div><span style="font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size: 12px; line-height: 15px;">-- Thomas Edison --</span></div>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 4:28 PM, Allan
Sindelar <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:allan@positiveenergysolar.com">allan@positiveenergysolar.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt
0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);
padding-left: 1ex;">
<div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000"> Wrenches,<br>
A good client of ours is a rancher in the New
Mexico/Arizona border area. He has a specific need for
which I couldn't offer a simple system.<br>
<br>
He needs to raise water from a lake 400+/- vertical feet
to a 100K gallon storage tank for agricultural use. The
site is remote. The amount is substantial - about 10-12
gpm continuously, 24/7. He would like to use 4 Grundfos
SQ Flex pumps at about 2.5-3 gpm, each running
array-direct feeding a common pipe to the tank. He then
wants to use about an 8kW (derated to 6kW for 7,500'
elevation) diesel generator (with standard two-wire
automatic start) to run all four pumps when the sun goes
down, and shut off and transfer back to PV when the sun
comes up the next morning.<br>
<br>
How might this be done? If we assume that each pump has
four 210W modules, that would be an 80Vnom array with
MPP around 120V and Voc around 150V. I would assume that
both of these voltages are too high to use any
stand-alone AGS, such as Atkinson or Magnum. We
considered a separate tiny 12V or 24V battery with small
PV module, used just to power an AGS voltage sense
signal, with the voltage difference between float
(13.6V) and rest (12.7V) triggering a voltage-actuated
start signal, but rejected this as problematic as
battery temperatures affected charge voltages. A
self-contained time switch, such as some of the newer
Intermatic units, might work, if the right model can be
identified and isn't a substantial phantom load.<br>
<br>
We would also have to adapt a relay to switch between
sources, with a 120 or 240 V AC relay coil current,
energized by the generator. The Grundfos IO101 AC
interface unit is manual only.<br>
<br>
Has anyone solved this problem? Any ideas for a
reasonably simple and trouble-free approach would be
welcome.<br>
Thank you,<br>
Allan<br>
<br>
<div>-- <br>
<font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><b>Allan
Sindelar</b></font><br>
<small><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Allan@positiveenergysolar.com"
target="_blank"><font color="#000099" face="Times
New Roman, Times, serif"><u>Allan@positiveenergysolar.com</u></font></a></small><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><br>
<span style="font-size: 10pt;">NABCEP Certified
Photovoltaic Installer<br>
NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional<br>
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician<br>
<b>Positive Energy, Inc.</b><br>
3201 Calle Marie<br>
Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507<br>
<b><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:505%20424-1112" value="+15054241112"
target="_blank">505 424-1112</a></b><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.positiveenergysolar.com/"
target="_blank"><u>www.positiveenergysolar.com</u></a></span></font>
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style="font-size: 10pt;"><b><br>
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