<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:x="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:excel" xmlns:p="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:powerpoint" xmlns:a="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:access" xmlns:dt="uuid:C2F41010-65B3-11d1-A29F-00AA00C14882" xmlns:s="uuid:BDC6E3F0-6DA3-11d1-A2A3-00AA00C14882" xmlns:rs="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:rowset" xmlns:z="#RowsetSchema" xmlns:b="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:publisher" xmlns:ss="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:spreadsheet" xmlns:c="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:component:spreadsheet" xmlns:odc="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:odc" xmlns:oa="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:activation" xmlns:html="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40" xmlns:q="http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/envelope/" xmlns:rtc="http://microsoft.com/officenet/conferencing" xmlns:D="DAV:" xmlns:Repl="http://schemas.microsoft.com/repl/" xmlns:mt="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/meetings/" xmlns:x2="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/excel/2003/xml" xmlns:ppda="http://www.passport.com/NameSpace.xsd" xmlns:ois="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/ois/" xmlns:dir="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/directory/" xmlns:ds="http://www.w3.org/2000/09/xmldsig#" xmlns:dsp="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/dsp" xmlns:udc="http://schemas.microsoft.com/data/udc" xmlns:xsd="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema" xmlns:sub="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/2002/1/alerts/" xmlns:ec="http://www.w3.org/2001/04/xmlenc#" xmlns:sp="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/" xmlns:sps="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/" xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" xmlns:udcs="http://schemas.microsoft.com/data/udc/soap" xmlns:udcxf="http://schemas.microsoft.com/data/udc/xmlfile" xmlns:udcp2p="http://schemas.microsoft.com/data/udc/parttopart" xmlns:wf="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/workflow/" xmlns:dsss="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2006/digsig-setup" xmlns:dssi="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2006/digsig" xmlns:mdssi="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/package/2006/digital-signature" xmlns:mver="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/markup-compatibility/2006" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns:mrels="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/package/2006/relationships" xmlns:spwp="http://microsoft.com/sharepoint/webpartpages" xmlns:ex12t="http://schemas.microsoft.com/exchange/services/2006/types" xmlns:ex12m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/exchange/services/2006/messages" xmlns:pptsl="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/SlideLibrary/" xmlns:spsl="http://microsoft.com/webservices/SharePointPortalServer/PublishedLinksService" xmlns:Z="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" xmlns:st="" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"><meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 12 (filtered medium)"><style><!--
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=white lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>Interesting the 2600 RPM = 57.7 MPH. times 500 hours is a 28,885 mile interval on the oil change. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>Are they requiring synthetic oil? The best AMSOIL product is currently 25,000 miles between oil changes.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:windowtext'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>Glad to hear they are thinking but time will tell. Except for [1] 30KW unit I have yet to see one survive more than a year before catastrophic failure or all consuming fire.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:windowtext'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>I do not know of any ONAN or Kohler units that do not need a PV module to back up the standby power requirements of the control loads run off of the generator start battery, It almost seems a separate deep cycle battery for the wasteful controls would be smart. AN more expense.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:windowtext'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>Dana Orzel<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>Great Solar Works, Inc<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>E - dana@solarwork.com<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>V - 970.626.5253<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>F - 970.626.4140<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>C - 970.209.4076<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>web - www.solarwork.com<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:windowtext'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>Do not ever believe anything, but seriously trust through action.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:windowtext'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Allan Sindelar<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 15, 2011 1:52 PM<br><b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br><b>Subject:</b> [RE-wrenches] Reconsidering Generac for Off-Grid<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>Fellow Wrenches,<br>I have been wanting to write this post for weeks now, but have put it off because it has felt risky to me. Years ago this list had a fair amount of criticism of Generac generators. I followed that advice back then. Now I'm reconsidering the brand because of a specific new model, and I'm encouraging other Wrenches to do the same.<br><br>Generac has introduced a 6kW propane unit specifically designed and built for off-grid use. I have been testing one out in my home (a production unit supplied by Generac). I am genuinely impressed with it, even if the model name - the "EcoGen" - is a little bit hokey. I have begun recommending them to some of my customers. (Although we were and technically remain Kohler dealers, and very occasionally sell a Yamaha inverter-generator, we have moved away from any generator sales and service.)<br><br>Here are some features that impress me:<br>The oversized (530cc twin) V-twin engine for the 6kW output runs at 2600 rpm, using a vertical shaft and belt drive to spin the armature at 3600 rpm while reducing sound and increasing engine life.<br>It comes wired for straight 120VAC output (as mine is set up), but a 120/240 kit is optional.<br>It's set up to run on LP only.<br>It has standard two-wire remote signal and electric start.<br>It has a large external oil reservoir and a 500-hour (!) recommended maintenance interval.<br>It has a steel enclosure with sound-deadening material, so doesn't need a pad or weather protection. The enclosure is tight, so rodents can't get in.<br>It is noticeably and surprisingly quiet. It's quieter than the ancient Onan 6.5 Commercial that it replaced in my home, and that 1800 rpm flathead twin was famously quiet.<br>My understanding from asking questions is that the engine is specific to this model, with hardened internal moving parts for longevity.<br> It comes with a two-year/3000 hour warranty when used in off-grid applications.<br><br>So far, I have had one minor performance issue and one design flaw, as I see it. The performance issue is that the unit uses an electric solenoid to close a choke when cold-starting - the choke serves to draw more propane in for a few seconds. The engine was slow to start at first. A tweak on the choke linkage with a needle-nose pliers effectively shortened the linkage by a millimeter or so and the problem hasn't recurred. <br><br>So far, the only design flaw, in my opinion, is that the unit has an electronic controller/display/memory that relies on a small built-in AC charger to maintain the starting battery SOC. Beside the 8 watt standby draw (as I have measured it; max ~200 watt-hours/day, but I don't think the 8W draw is continuous), nobody who's replacing an existing generator is likely to have a 120V AC convenience outlet or feed at their generator location - that's something the home-standby units crowd has, not off-grid. I have given Generac focused feedback on this battery charging issue in particular. I'm using the on-board AC charger, because coincidentally I had run one additional AC hot conductor (in case I needed to input 240V AC) when I installed my buried generator input/signal lines years ago, and had subsequently used this as a hot load feeder to a nearby outbuilding. I tapped off of that conductor. I also had an extra signal conductor pair, so I can monitor gennie battery voltage remotely in my home via the extra Bat2 voltage function on the new TriMetric TM2025. But I told Generac that in all my years I don't recall more than one installation with an AC load circuit out to the generator location, and that this was kind of a big deal. It turns out that they are aware of this and responsive to my feedback, are open to adding a PV module and regulator as an optional kit, and a site-specific homebrew solution would not void the warranty. I suggested a remote mount kit (too many generators are installed where the sun never shines), and several module sizes depending on the region of the country. It could be a 30W module in sunnier climates and a 40W or 50W module, and a SunGuard or equivalent, in cloudier areas. I also suggested that this issue be discussed as acceptable in the owner's manual or in a technical bulletin for the customer.<br><br>My unit was installed in March, so being in New Mexico I haven't put many hours on it yet. So my endorsement is based on features and observations, more than on long hours of operation. But I'm impressed so far. This unit fills a niche that has been pretty much ignored by most generator manufacturers as they move toward "home standby" units with heaters and fancy controllers that are inappropriate for off-grid applications.<br><br>I'll continue to suggest this unit for some of our installations, requesting feedback from homeowners after installation. I'll share any issues here if they come up. I'd be interested in hearing from other Wrenches who have installed or worked with one of these units.<br>Allan<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>-- <br><b>Allan Sindelar</b><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><a href="mailto:Allan@positiveenergysolar.com"><span style='color:#000099'>Allan@positiveenergysolar.com</span></a></span><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer<br>NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional<br>New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician<br><b>Positive Energy, Inc.</b><br>3201 Calle Marie<br>Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507<br><b>505 424-1112</b><br><a href="http://www.positiveenergysolar.com/" target="_blank">www.positiveenergysolar.com</a></span> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-right:722.25pt;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></body></html>