<html><head><base href="x-msg://236/"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">HI Brian,<div><br></div><div>I would add that remember we had to take out the400 amp class T fuses because they kept blowing!</div><div><br></div><div>jay</div><div><br></div><div>peltz power<br><div><div>On Apr 27, 2011, at 6:13 PM, Brian Teitelbaum wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Benn,<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">I have a little experience from about a decade ago. Don’t know how useful it will be though.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">AEE and DC Power used to team up to supply power for a three-day outdoor music festival in Mendocino Co, CA in the mid 90’s and early 2000’s. Music from 5-8PM on Friday, and from 11AM-10PM on Sat and Sun. I don’t know how big the crowd was - 5-6000 I would guess.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">We would bring a rack-mounted 12kW Exeltech MX inverter set-up (24V and not even N+1 redundant) and 5-6kW of PV (a lot of 120W modules). DC Power would bring two big tractor-trailer loads of industrial wet-cell batteries (I have no idea what the total amp-hours were, but a hell of a lot).<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">The sound crew would show up each year with a bigger set-up, even though we warned them that the power supply was limited. Stage lighting was left on generators running biodiesel.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">The last year that we did it, the sound guys showed up with a sound system rated at 14kW. It drew 6kW just being on with no sound. Not even a hint of buzz or hum from the inverter power. The MX is good stuff.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">I nervously watched that Exeltech all weekend as the bar graphs on each power module stayed in the red over-load range for most of each band’s set. When the drummers or bass players would go nuts it was all red lights. We were measuring up to 600A of current flowing through the four pairs of 4/0 cables coming from the batteries, and a good bit of voltage drop as the cables were at least 30’ long. The inverter was seeing less than 24VDC most of the time. The cooling fans on the MX modules would run for 20-30 seconds, and shut off for a minute or two and then come on again. This is with temps in the upper 90’s, and the inverter sitting on the ground under the stage. Even with all this torture, the Exeltech never even hiccupped, which was quite impressive. The sound engineer was hollering at us that the inverter was clipping off the high notes, but neither I, nor the audience ever noticed. All I could do was shrug and tell him that he was warned about limited power availability. The music was great.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">By the end of the weekend, those batteries were pretty drained, so it’s hard to actually say that the show was “solar powered”. Sitting around with a few beers afterwards, we all agreed that the ranch owners could install a 2kW grid-tie system on a tracker at the concert site and that system would produce all the energy needed for the show in a year’s time, likely including the energy use for the lighting and by the vendors. This would have required that utility power be brought to the site, which would have been a rather expensive deal, but would have made more sense, and would have made it a more truly solar-powered event.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Brian Teitelbaum<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">AEE Solar<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div><div style="border-right-style: none; border-bottom-style: none; border-left-style: none; border-width: initial; border-color: initial; border-top-style: solid; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt; padding-top: 3pt; padding-right: 0in; padding-bottom: 0in; padding-left: 0in; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; ">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>benn kilburn<br><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Wednesday, April 27, 2011 3:51 PM<br><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Wrenches<br><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[RE-wrenches] PV powered music festival<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; ">Wrenches,<o:p></o:p></span></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; ">I have been asked about sizing PV systems for a couple different music festivals that have been run solely off of generators in the past. The problem i'm having is determining the energy consumption of music/stage (amps, speakers, lights, etc...?) loads as well as concession. The organizers have never considered the kwh of electricity used and it has never been metered. I believe the attendance of one festival is expected to be in the range of 5000 and the other closer to 15000 over the course of a weekend.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; "><o:p> </o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; ">Do any of you have any experiences in this area? How were the loads determined?<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; "><o:p> </o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; ">No doubt that generator back-up will still be needed, to what extent, will be determined. So what we're looking at would be a temporary off-grid PV system with generator back-up...<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; "><o:p> </o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; ">Any suggestions on how to proceed with this one?<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; "><o:p> </o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; ">benn<br><br></span><span class="ecxecxecxecxecapple-style-span"><span franklin="" gothic="" medium'","serif";color:#002060'="" style="font-size: 10pt; ">DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. </span></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; "><o:p></o:p></span></div><div><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span franklin="" gothic="" medium'","serif"'="" style="font-size: 10pt; "><a href="mailto:benn@daystarsolar.ca" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">benn@daystarsolar.ca</a></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span franklin="" gothic="" medium'","serif"'="" style="font-size: 10pt; ">780-906-7807 </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span franklin="" gothic="" medium'","serif"'="" style="font-size: 10pt; ">HAVE A SUNNY DAY</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; "><o:p> </o:p></span></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 12pt; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; "><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div>_______________________________________________<br>List sponsored by Home Power magazine<br><br>List Address:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>Options & settings:<br><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>List-Archive:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>List rules & etiquette:<br><a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br><br>Check out participant bios:<br><a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><br><br></div></span></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>