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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Partially right, Jim. Except hotter internal
temperatures cause the electro-chemical process to be faster, not
slower. Only as temperatures decrease below 25C, which may vary with
manufacturer, is the process slowed.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Larry</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=ntrei@1scom.net href="mailto:ntrei@1scom.net">North Texas Renewable
Energy Inc</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, April 22, 2011 12:54
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [RE-wrenches] Air
conditioning for batteries in hightemperature climate</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=062344719-22042011><FONT face=Arial>It's the efficiency of
the chemical reaction that creates the loss. The electrolyte solution cannot
pull out nor put back the same amount of 'energy' in hotter or colder
conditions. When temperatures moderate, the chemical reaction returns to its
nominal efficiency. The batterys capacity should not be permanently affected
unless SOC reaches extreme levels. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=062344719-22042011><FONT face=Arial>Or that's how I recall
the process explained for cold temps. I assume the same is true for high
temps.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=062344719-22042011><FONT face=Arial>Jim</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=062344719-22042011><FONT
face=Arial></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org]<B>On Behalf Of
</B>Hugh<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, April 22, 2011 2:13 PM<BR><B>To:</B>
RE-wrenches<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [RE-wrenches] Air conditioning for
batteries in high temperature climate<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>Hi Roy,</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Hi temperatures will hit the battery capacity but will the battery
efficiency be that much affected? If the battery capacity is
inadequate then you need to compare the aircon running cost to the cost of
buying a 10% larger battery. Don't you?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Cheers</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Hugh</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite">Bob is correct, I do have an off grid
client that uses an AC unit to keep the batteries cool.<BR>Although we're
not in a high temp climate, it does get into the 80's and low 90's
here<BR>in the summer.<BR><BR>By my calculations, he was losing an
'average' of 10% storage capacity during the 5 month<BR>period from late
spring to early fall. In July and August it was closer to 18%, but for
calculation<BR>purposes, 10% is close enough. His bank capacity is 4800AH
@ 48 VDC. That's 230,400 watt hours<BR>and 10% of that rounds out to
23,000 watt hours lost to heat.<BR><BR>I showed up one day to check
something in the power shed and was dismayed to see a window<BR>AC unit
installed there. An interesting customer discussion ensued and I had to
admit he was<BR>correct in his calculations.<BR><BR>The Energy Star rated
AC unit consumes no more than 3,000 watt hours per day, even in
the<BR>highest heat. Essentially, he's 'spending" 3 kilowatt hours to 'buy
back' 20 kilowatt hours of<BR>storage. He got me on that one!<BR><BR>That
reasoning didn't work on the 6 other AC units that appeared on his house
the following<BR>week. But that's another story altogether!</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><TT>Roy Butler<BR>NABCEP Certified Solar
PV InstallerŪ<BR>NYSERDA eligible PV & wind installer<BR>PA Sunshine
Program Approved PV Installer<BR>Four Winds Renewable Energy, LLC<BR>8902
Route 46<BR>Arkport, NY 14807<BR>607-324-9747<BR><BR></TT><A
href="http://www.four-winds-energy.com"><TT>www.four-winds-energy.com</TT></A><TT><BR><BR>Although
no trees were killed in the sending of this message,<BR>a large number of
electrons were terribly
inconvenienced.<BR><BR> <SPAN></SPAN> </TT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><BR>On 4/22/2011 7:40 AM, bob ellison
wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><FONT face=Calibri color=#000000
size=+1>I believe Roy has a customer with a huge battery bank that air
conditioned the battery room. He ran the numbers and the air
conditioning actually made sense.</FONT><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><FONT face=Calibri color=#000000
size=+1></FONT><BR> </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><FONT face=Calibri color=#000000
size=+1>Bob Ellison</FONT><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><FONT face=Calibri color=#000000
size=+1></FONT><BR> </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><FONT face=Tahoma
size=-1><B>From:</B></FONT> <A
href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org"><FONT
face=Tahoma
size=-1>re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</FONT></A><FONT
face=Tahoma size=-1> [</FONT><A
href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org"><FONT
face=Tahoma
size=-1>mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</FONT></A><FONT
face=Tahoma size=-1>]<B> On Behalf Of</B> R Ray Walters<BR><B>Sent:</B>
Thursday, April 21, 2011 4:50 PM<BR><B>To:</B>
RE-wrenches<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [RE-wrenches] Air conditioning for
batteies in high temperature climate</FONT><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><FONT
face="Times New Roman"></FONT><BR> </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><FONT face="Times New Roman">Are you
using temperature compensation? It lowers the voltage when its
hot.</FONT><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><FONT face="Times New Roman">Also, have
you considered setting the batteries in a below ground vault? I've had
good luck with in floor battery boxes.</FONT><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><FONT face="Times New Roman">Finally,
AGMs and L16s just don't last very long anyway. AGMs maybe 3 years, and
L16s I've seen die in under 5 years and we get to 15 below
zero.</FONT><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><FONT face="Times New Roman">My
suggestion: temp comp, ground vault, HUP or equivalent cycle
life.</FONT><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><FONT
face="Times New Roman"></FONT><BR> </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><FONT face=Helvetica color=#000000
size=-2>R. Walters</FONT><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><A href="mailto:ray@solarray.com"><FONT
face=Helvetica color=#000000
size=-2>ray@solarray.com</FONT></A><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><FONT face=Helvetica color=#000000
size=-2>Solar Engineer</FONT><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><FONT face=Helvetica color=#000000
size=-2></FONT><BR> </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><FONT face=Helvetica color=#000000
size=-2></FONT><BR> </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><FONT face=Helvetica color=#000000
size=-2><BR><BR></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><FONT
face="Times New Roman"></FONT><BR> </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><FONT face="Times New Roman">On Apr 21,
2011, at 1:22 PM, Starlight Solar, Larry Crutcher
wrote:</FONT><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><FONT
face="Times New Roman"><BR><BR></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><FONT face=Arial size=-1>Hello Battery
Wrenches,</FONT><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><FONT face=Helvetica
size=+1></FONT><BR> </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><FONT face=Arial size=-1>Over the years
I have had several battery banks in Baja and
Sonora Mexico fail in just 36 to 48 months. These have been
L16 or 8D AGM or flooded banks, 24 and 48 volt systems. The
charging systems are working properly and
programmed to manufacturer recommended set points and
discharges are rarely over 30% DoD. Some batteries are only
used on weekends, some are discharged daily. I believe what is
affecting the short life is the high temperature they live in for 5
months each year. Temps. can hit 115 F in vented battery rooms. I have
been thinking about a small air conditioner and insulated battery
box to keep the battery at no more than 80 F. There are some
portable units that draw about 600 watts and the run time would be very
little with a highly insulated enclosure. There is ample power to do
this on the home I am changing batteries in now. Has anyone done this
and gained longer battery life?</FONT><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><FONT face=Helvetica
size=+1></FONT><BR> </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><FONT face=Verdana size=-1>Best
Regards,</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><FONT face=Verdana size=-1>Larry
Crutcher<BR></FONT><A href="http://www.starlightsolar.com/"><FONT
face=Verdana size=-1>Starlight Solar Power Systems</FONT></A><FONT
face=Verdana size=-1><BR></FONT><FONT size=-2><BR><FONT
color=#ff0000><I>powered by </I></FONT></FONT><FONT color=#ff0000
size=+1><I><B>S</B></I></FONT><FONT color=#ff0000
size=-1><I><B>TARLIGHT</B></I></FONT><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
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<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><X-SIGSEP><PRE>--
</PRE></X-SIGSEP>
<DIV>Hugh
Piggott<BR><BR>Scoraig<BR>http://www.scoraigwind.co.uk</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
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