<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Re: [RE-wrenches] Air conditioning for batteries in high</TITLE>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<STYLE type=text/css><!--
blockquote, dl, ul, ol, li { padding-top: 0 ; padding-bottom: 0 }
--></STYLE>
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.6082" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=062344719-22042011><FONT face=Arial>It's the efficiency of the
chemical reaction that creates the loss. The electrolyte solution cannot pull
out nor put back the same amount of 'energy' in hotter or colder conditions.
When temperatures moderate, the chemical reaction returns to its nominal
efficiency. The batterys capacity should not be permanently affected unless SOC
reaches extreme levels. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=062344719-22042011><FONT face=Arial>Or that's how I recall the
process explained for cold temps. I assume the same is true for high
temps.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=062344719-22042011><FONT face=Arial>Jim</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=062344719-22042011><FONT face=Arial></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org]<B>On Behalf Of
</B>Hugh<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, April 22, 2011 2:13 PM<BR><B>To:</B>
RE-wrenches<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [RE-wrenches] Air conditioning for
batteries in high temperature climate<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>Hi Roy,</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Hi temperatures will hit the battery capacity but will the battery
efficiency be that much affected? If the battery capacity is inadequate
then you need to compare the aircon running cost to the cost of buying a 10%
larger battery. Don't you?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Cheers</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Hugh</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite">Bob is correct, I do have an off grid client
that uses an AC unit to keep the batteries cool.<BR>Although we're not in a
high temp climate, it does get into the 80's and low 90's here<BR>in the
summer.<BR><BR>By my calculations, he was losing an 'average' of 10% storage
capacity during the 5 month<BR>period from late spring to early fall. In
July and August it was closer to 18%, but for calculation<BR>purposes, 10%
is close enough. His bank capacity is 4800AH @ 48 VDC. That's 230,400 watt
hours<BR>and 10% of that rounds out to 23,000 watt hours lost to
heat.<BR><BR>I showed up one day to check something in the power shed and
was dismayed to see a window<BR>AC unit installed there. An interesting
customer discussion ensued and I had to admit he was<BR>correct in his
calculations.<BR><BR>The Energy Star rated AC unit consumes no more than
3,000 watt hours per day, even in the<BR>highest heat. Essentially, he's
'spending" 3 kilowatt hours to 'buy back' 20 kilowatt hours of<BR>storage.
He got me on that one!<BR><BR>That reasoning didn't work on the 6 other AC
units that appeared on his house the following<BR>week. But that's another
story altogether!</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><TT>Roy Butler<BR>NABCEP Certified Solar PV
InstallerŪ<BR>NYSERDA eligible PV & wind installer<BR>PA Sunshine
Program Approved PV Installer<BR>Four Winds Renewable Energy, LLC<BR>8902
Route 46<BR>Arkport, NY 14807<BR>607-324-9747<BR><BR></TT><A
href="http://www.four-winds-energy.com"><TT>www.four-winds-energy.com</TT></A><TT><BR><BR>Although
no trees were killed in the sending of this message,<BR>a large number of
electrons were terribly
inconvenienced.<BR><BR> <SPAN></SPAN> </TT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><BR>On 4/22/2011 7:40 AM, bob ellison
wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><FONT face=Calibri color=#000000 size=+1>I
believe Roy has a customer with a huge battery bank that air conditioned
the battery room. He ran the numbers and the air conditioning actually
made sense.</FONT><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><FONT face=Calibri color=#000000
size=+1></FONT><BR> </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><FONT face=Calibri color=#000000
size=+1>Bob Ellison</FONT><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><FONT face=Calibri color=#000000
size=+1></FONT><BR> </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><FONT face=Tahoma
size=-1><B>From:</B></FONT> <A
href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org"><FONT face=Tahoma
size=-1>re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</FONT></A><FONT
face=Tahoma size=-1> [</FONT><A
href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org"><FONT face=Tahoma
size=-1>mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</FONT></A><FONT
face=Tahoma size=-1>]<B> On Behalf Of</B> R Ray Walters<BR><B>Sent:</B>
Thursday, April 21, 2011 4:50 PM<BR><B>To:</B>
RE-wrenches<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [RE-wrenches] Air conditioning for
batteies in high temperature climate</FONT><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><FONT
face="Times New Roman"></FONT><BR> </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><FONT face="Times New Roman">Are you using
temperature compensation? It lowers the voltage when its
hot.</FONT><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><FONT face="Times New Roman">Also, have
you considered setting the batteries in a below ground vault? I've had
good luck with in floor battery boxes.</FONT><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><FONT face="Times New Roman">Finally, AGMs
and L16s just don't last very long anyway. AGMs maybe 3 years, and L16s
I've seen die in under 5 years and we get to 15 below
zero.</FONT><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><FONT face="Times New Roman">My
suggestion: temp comp, ground vault, HUP or equivalent cycle
life.</FONT><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><FONT
face="Times New Roman"></FONT><BR> </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><FONT face=Helvetica color=#000000
size=-2>R. Walters</FONT><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><A href="mailto:ray@solarray.com"><FONT
face=Helvetica color=#000000
size=-2>ray@solarray.com</FONT></A><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><FONT face=Helvetica color=#000000
size=-2>Solar Engineer</FONT><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><FONT face=Helvetica color=#000000
size=-2></FONT><BR> </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><FONT face=Helvetica color=#000000
size=-2></FONT><BR> </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><FONT face=Helvetica color=#000000
size=-2><BR><BR></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><FONT
face="Times New Roman"></FONT><BR> </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><FONT face="Times New Roman">On Apr 21,
2011, at 1:22 PM, Starlight Solar, Larry Crutcher
wrote:</FONT><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><FONT
face="Times New Roman"><BR><BR></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><FONT face=Arial size=-1>Hello Battery
Wrenches,</FONT><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><FONT face=Helvetica
size=+1></FONT><BR> </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><FONT face=Arial size=-1>Over the years I
have had several battery banks in Baja and Sonora Mexico fail in
just 36 to 48 months. These have been L16 or 8D AGM or flooded banks,
24 and 48 volt systems. The charging systems are working properly and
programmed to manufacturer recommended set points and
discharges are rarely over 30% DoD. Some batteries are only
used on weekends, some are discharged daily. I believe what is
affecting the short life is the high temperature they live in for 5 months
each year. Temps. can hit 115 F in vented battery rooms. I have been
thinking about a small air conditioner and insulated battery box to
keep the battery at no more than 80 F. There are some portable units that
draw about 600 watts and the run time would be very little with a highly
insulated enclosure. There is ample power to do this on the home I am
changing batteries in now. Has anyone done this and gained longer battery
life?</FONT><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><FONT face=Helvetica
size=+1></FONT><BR> </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><FONT face=Verdana size=-1>Best
Regards,</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><FONT face=Verdana size=-1>Larry
Crutcher<BR></FONT><A href="http://www.starlightsolar.com/"><FONT
face=Verdana size=-1>Starlight Solar Power Systems</FONT></A><FONT
face=Verdana size=-1><BR></FONT><FONT size=-2><BR><FONT
color=#ff0000><I>powered by </I></FONT></FONT><FONT color=#ff0000
size=+1><I><B>S</B></I></FONT><FONT color=#ff0000
size=-1><I><B>TARLIGHT</B></I></FONT><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><FONT face=Helvetica
size=+1>_______________________________________________<BR>List sponsored
by Home Power magazine<BR><BR>List Address: </FONT><A
href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"><FONT face=Helvetica
size=+1>RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</FONT></A><FONT face=Helvetica
size=+1><BR><BR>Options & settings:<BR></FONT><A
href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org"><FONT
face=Helvetica
size=+1>http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</FONT></A><FONT
face=Helvetica size=+1><BR><BR>List-Archive: </FONT><A
href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org"><FONT
face=Helvetica
size=+1>http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</FONT></A><FONT
face=Helvetica size=+1><BR><BR>List rules & etiquette:<BR></FONT><A
href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm"><FONT face=Helvetica
size=+1>www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</FONT></A><FONT face=Helvetica
size=+1><BR><BR>Check out participant bios:<BR></FONT><A
href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org/"><FONT face=Helvetica
size=+1>www.members.re-wrenches.org</FONT></A><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><FONT
face="Times New Roman"></FONT><BR> </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=""
type="cite"><TT><BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>List
sponsored by Home Power magazine<BR><BR>List Address:</TT> <A
href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"><TT>RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</TT></A><TT><BR><BR>Options
& settings:<BR></TT><A
href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org"><TT>http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</TT></A><TT><BR><BR>List-Archive:</TT>
<A
href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org"><TT>http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</TT></A><TT><BR><BR>List
rules & etiquette:<BR></TT><A
href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm"><TT>www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</TT></A><TT><BR><BR>Check
out participant bios:<BR></TT><A
href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org"><TT>www.members.re-wrenches.org</TT></A><TT><BR></TT></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=""
type="cite"><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>List
sponsored by Home Power magazine<BR><BR>List Address:
RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org<BR><BR>Options &
settings:<BR>http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org<BR><BR>List-Archive:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org<BR><BR>List
rules & etiquette:<BR>www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm<BR><BR>Check out
participant bios:<BR>www.members.re-wrenches.org</BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><X-SIGSEP><PRE>--
</PRE></X-SIGSEP>
<DIV>Hugh
Piggott<BR><BR>Scoraig<BR>http://www.scoraigwind.co.uk</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>