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    Bob is correct, I do have an off grid client that uses an AC unit to
    keep the batteries cool.<br>
    Although we're not in a high temp climate, it does get into the 80's
    and low 90's here<br>
    in the summer. <br>
    <br>
    By my calculations, he was losing an 'average' of 10% storage
    capacity during the 5 month<br>
    period from late spring to early fall. In July and August it was
    closer to 18%, but for calculation<br>
    purposes, 10% is close enough. His bank capacity is 4800AH @ 48 VDC.
    That's 230,400 watt hours <br>
    and 10% of that rounds out to 23,000 watt hours lost to heat. <br>
    <br>
    I showed up one day to check something in the power shed and was
    dismayed to see a window <br>
    AC unit installed there. An interesting customer discussion ensued
    and I had to admit he was <br>
    correct in his calculations.<br>
    <br>
    The Energy Star rated AC unit consumes no more than 3,000 watt hours
    per day, even in the<br>
    highest heat. Essentially, he's 'spending" 3 kilowatt hours to 'buy
    back' 20 kilowatt hours of<br>
    storage. He got me on that one!<br>
    <br>
    That reasoning didn't work on the 6 other AC units that appeared on
    his house the following<br>
    week. But that's another story altogether!<br>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Roy Butler
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer®
NYSERDA eligible PV & wind installer
PA Sunshine Program Approved PV Installer
Four Winds Renewable Energy, LLC
8902 Route 46
Arkport, NY 14807
607-324-9747

<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.four-winds-energy.com">www.four-winds-energy.com</a>

Although no trees were killed in the sending of this message, 
a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

                
</pre>
    <br>
    On 4/22/2011 7:40 AM, bob ellison wrote:
    <blockquote cite="mid:00a801cc00e2$cb09d590$611d80b0$@com"
      type="cite">
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      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p class="MsoNormal"><font size="4" color="black" face="Calibri"><span
              style="font-size: 14pt; font-family:
              "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: black;">I
              believe Roy has a customer with a huge battery bank that
              air conditioned the battery room. He ran the numbers and
              the air conditioning actually made sense.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><font size="4" color="black" face="Calibri"><span
              style="font-size: 14pt; font-family:
              "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: black;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><font size="4" color="black" face="Calibri"><span
              style="font-size: 14pt; font-family:
              "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: black;">Bob
              Ellison<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><font size="4" color="black" face="Calibri"><span
              style="font-size: 14pt; font-family:
              "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: black;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
        <div>
          <div style="border-right: medium none; border-width: 1pt
            medium medium; border-style: solid none none; border-color:
            rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color;
            padding: 3pt 0in 0in;">
            <p class="MsoNormal"><b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span
                    style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
                    "Tahoma","sans-serif";
                    font-weight: bold;">From:</span></font></b><font
                size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size: 10pt;
                  font-family:
                  "Tahoma","sans-serif";">
                  <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>
                  [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>] <b><span
                      style="font-weight: bold;">On Behalf Of </span></b>R
                  Ray Walters<br>
                  <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b>
                  Thursday, April 21, 2011 4:50 PM<br>
                  <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b>
                  RE-wrenches<br>
                  <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b>
                  Re: [RE-wrenches] Air conditioning for batteies in
                  high temperature climate<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
          </div>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span
              style="font-size: 12pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span
              style="font-size: 12pt;">Are you using temperature
              compensation? It lowers the voltage when its hot.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span
                style="font-size: 12pt;">Also, have you considered
                setting the batteries in a below ground vault? I've had
                good luck with in floor battery boxes.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span
                style="font-size: 12pt;">Finally, AGMs and L16s just
                don't last very long anyway. AGMs maybe 3 years, and
                L16s I've seen die in under 5 years and we get to 15
                below zero.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span
                style="font-size: 12pt;">My suggestion: temp comp,
                ground vault, HUP or equivalent cycle life.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span
                style="font-size: 12pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
          <div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><font size="1" color="black"
                  face="Helvetica"><span style="font-size: 9pt;
                    font-family:
                    "Helvetica","sans-serif"; color:
                    black;">R. Walters<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><font size="1" color="black"
                  face="Helvetica"><span style="font-size: 9pt;
                    font-family:
                    "Helvetica","sans-serif"; color:
                    black;"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="mailto:ray@solarray.com">ray@solarray.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><font size="1" color="black"
                  face="Helvetica"><span style="font-size: 9pt;
                    font-family:
                    "Helvetica","sans-serif"; color:
                    black;">Solar Engineer<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><font size="1" color="black"
                  face="Helvetica"><span style="font-size: 9pt;
                    font-family:
                    "Helvetica","sans-serif"; color:
                    black;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><font size="1" color="black"
                  face="Helvetica"><span style="font-size: 9pt;
                    font-family:
                    "Helvetica","sans-serif"; color:
                    black;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
            </div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><font size="1" color="black"
                face="Helvetica"><span style="font-size: 9pt;
                  font-family:
                  "Helvetica","sans-serif"; color:
                  black;"><br>
                  <br>
                </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span
                style="font-size: 12pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
          <div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span
                    style="font-size: 12pt;">On Apr 21, 2011, at 1:22
                    PM, Starlight Solar, Larry Crutcher wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
            </div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span
                  style="font-size: 12pt;"><br>
                  <br>
                  <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
            <div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span
                      style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
                      "Arial","sans-serif";">Hello
                      Battery Wrenches,</span></font><font size="4"
                    face="Helvetica"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt;
                      font-family:
                      "Helvetica","sans-serif";"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
              </div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><font size="4" face="Helvetica"><span
                      style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family:
                      "Helvetica","sans-serif";"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
              </div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span
                      style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
                      "Arial","sans-serif";">Over
                      the years I have had several battery banks in Baja
                      and Sonora Mexico fail in just 36 to 48 months.
                      These have been L16 or 8D AGM or flooded banks, 24
                      and 48 volt systems. The charging systems are
                      working properly and programmed to manufacturer
                      recommended set points and discharges are
                      rarely over 30% DoD.  Some batteries are only used
                      on weekends, some are discharged daily.  I believe
                      what is affecting the short life is the high
                      temperature they live in for 5 months each year.
                      Temps. can hit 115 F in vented battery rooms. I
                      have been thinking about a small air conditioner
                      and insulated battery box to keep the battery at
                      no more than 80 F. There are some portable units
                      that draw about 600 watts and the run time would
                      be very little with a highly insulated enclosure.
                      There is ample power to do this on the home I am
                      changing batteries in now. Has anyone done this
                      and gained longer battery life?</span></font><font
                    size="4" face="Helvetica"><span style="font-size:
                      13.5pt; font-family:
                      "Helvetica","sans-serif";"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
              </div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><font size="4" face="Helvetica"><span
                      style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family:
                      "Helvetica","sans-serif";"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
              </div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Verdana"><span
                      style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
                      "Verdana","sans-serif";">Best
                      Regards,</span></font><font size="4"
                    face="Helvetica"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt;
                      font-family:
                      "Helvetica","sans-serif";"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
              </div>
              <div>
                <p><font size="2" face="Verdana"><span style="font-size:
                      10pt; font-family:
                      "Verdana","sans-serif";">Larry
                      Crutcher<br>
                      <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="http://www.starlightsolar.com/">Starlight
                        Solar Power Systems</a><br>
                    </span></font><font size="1" face="Georgia"><span
                      style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family:
                      "Georgia","serif";"><br>
                      <em><i><font color="red" face="Georgia"><span
                              style="font-family:
                              "Georgia","serif";
                              color: red;">powered by</span></font></i></em><span
                        class="apple-converted-space"><i><font
                            color="red"><span style="color: red;
                              font-style: italic;"> </span></font></i></span></span></font><em><b><i><font
                          size="4" color="red" face="Georgia"><span
                            style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family:
                            "Georgia","serif";
                            color: red; font-weight: bold;">S</span></font></i></b></em><em><b><i><font
                          size="2" color="red" face="Georgia"><span
                            style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
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                            color: red; font-weight: bold;">TARLIGHT</span></font></i></b></em><font
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