<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Also, it sounds like you're losing almost 7 volts at times, which would correspond to 3 to 4 batteries in failure. <div>I think that would be very unlikely, hence why I still vote for the connectors being at fault. Possibly, it may just be one of the main connectors, and as others pointed out already:</div><div>it probably will only show itself under load. Don't forget to check the connections at the main disco and inverter too.</div><div>I had a system act very similar that was just a single connection that the customer had loosened and forgot to retighten.<br><div><br><div>
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><div>R. Walters</div><div><a href="mailto:ray@solarray.com">ray@solarray.com</a></div><div>Solar Engineer</div><div><br class="khtml-block-placeholder"></div><div><br class="khtml-block-placeholder"></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></span>
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<br><div><div>On Apr 20, 2011, at 5:01 PM, Allan Sindelar wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite">
<div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
It wouldn't cost much to replace the 5 interconnects, if only to
eliminate the issues that Ray has mentioned from consideration.<br>
<br>
Also, Rich, you didn't mention if all of the terminals got hot, or
only one/few/some. If the terminal contacts or the interconnects are
at fault, I would expect that some would be noticeably hotter than
others, corresponding to specific high-resistance issues at those
terminals.<br>
Allan<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-signature">
<font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><b>Allan Sindelar</b></font><br>
<small><a href="mailto:Allan@positiveenergysolar.com"><font color="#000099" face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><u>Allan@positiveenergysolar.com</u></font></a></small><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><br>
<span style="font-size: 10pt;">NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic
Installer<br>
NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional<br>
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician<br>
<b>Positive Energy, Inc.</b><br>
3201 Calle Marie<br>
Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507<br>
<b>505 424-1112</b><br>
<a href="http://www.positiveenergysolar.com/" target="_blank"><u>www.positiveenergysolar.com</u></a><o:p></o:p></span></font><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right: 722.25pt;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><font face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif"><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:city w:st="on"></st1:city><st1:state w:st="on"></st1:state><st1:postalcode w:st="on"></st1:postalcode></st1:place></font><b style=""><br>
</b></span></p>
<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><br>
</span> </div>
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On 4/20/2011 2:38 PM, R Ray Walters wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:AAC263E5-5490-4A2F-B2E6-83F515C6D7B3@solarray.com" type="cite">
<div>
<div>Sounds like problem connections, if all the cells are an
even 2.12 v. </div>
<div>I wouldn't solder 4/0 connections, the solder can run back
up the cable stranding, and make the cables too stiff to fully
connect with the battery terminal. </div>
<div>I had a battery terminal meltdown due to this. We quit
using thick bussbars, soldered cables, and stiff (THHN) cables
at battery terminals.</div>
<div>Also if not soldered properly, you can actually create more
resistance in the connection due to oxidation and pockets of
flux.</div>
<div>Cables from the manufacturers (HUP, Outback, Trace) are not
soldered BTW. </div>
<div>
<div>Its possible that heating the terminals when soldered
(with a torch?) may have created a layer of oxidation that
is causing the resistance (internally or externally)</div>
<div>Sand the contact surfaces, and see if that helps.</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Get an infrared thermometer (fairly cheap these days at
Sears or automotive store) and check all the connections under
load.</div>
<div>Also, check the voltage drops on your cables under load,
you should be able to find where all that voltage is going,
and it should match your infrared readings.</div>
<div>I'd also take out another set of cables to see what that
does.</div>
<div><br>
<div>
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; ">
<div>R. Walters</div>
<div><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:ray@solarray.com">ray@solarray.com</a></div>
<div>Solar Engineer</div>
<div><br class="khtml-block-placeholder">
</div>
<div><br class="khtml-block-placeholder">
</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
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<div>
<div>On Apr 20, 2011, at 1:15 PM, Bob-O Schultze wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word;">Rich,
<div>It sounds like you've got a rotter or two. Given
the short age of the pack, that's my suspicion. Try
checking the individual battery voltages when under
load and fairly well discharged. I've seen a new
battery bank all show good SG and individual voltages
while resting but one or more batteries tank badly
under load. Poor manufacturing QC is the cause.</div>
<div>good luck, Bob-O</div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div>On Apr 20, 2011, at 12:03 PM, Rich Nicol wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family:
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<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US">
<div class="WordSection1" style="page:
WordSection1;">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri,sans-serif;">RE Wrenches<o:p></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri,sans-serif; text-indent: 0.5in;">My
question regards a system (installed by
homeowner / friend) where they recently
upgraded their t105 battery bank to Trojan
RE series L16 2 volt cells. The battery
bank consists of 6 batteries in series for a
12 volt system. The interconnects are 12”
long 4/0 cables with crimped and soldered
lugs. Main cables are 6’ long 4/0 cables.<o:p></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri,sans-serif; text-indent: 0.5in;">The
first issue is high terminal temperature
during periods of heavy draw (~100 amps @
12v when water pump is on). Due to the
issue the owner has been only running the
water pump when charging the batteries with
his generator since the transfer switch on
the Outback inverter has transferred his
household circuits from the battery bank to
the generator. Obviously this is an
inconvenience. Before the end of life on his
T105’s he had no issues with the 6 volt
cells in series/parallel using only #2 AWG
interconnects.<o:p></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri,sans-serif; text-indent: 0.5in;">Most
recently he’s experienced an issue where the
inverter will not come on at all and when
attempted to come by switching on his main
DC breaker the voltage at the batteries
sags from 12.5 to ~5V! This issue is not
with the inverter since I loaned him a back
up Trace DR I keep around as a loaner but it
too would not come on and voltage sagged as
well. This sag is with no demand since it
sags immediately when the DC breaker is
switched on when connected to the inverter
even though the inverter has not been
switched on. <o:p></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri,sans-serif; text-indent: 0.5in;">I
stopped by this AM to check out the
situation, specific gravity of all cells is
good, open circuit voltage on each cell is
matched at 2.12 volts. The battery bank is
only about 4 months old.<o:p></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri,sans-serif;">Any insight would be
greatly appreciated.<o:p></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri,sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri,sans-serif;">Battery specs:<o:p></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri,sans-serif;">2 volt, Rated Capacity
@ 5 Hr rate=909 AH, 20 hr rate = 1110 AH,
100 hr rate = 1235.<o:p></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri,sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri,sans-serif;">Thanks for your help!<o:p></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri,sans-serif;">Rich<o:p></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri,sans-serif;"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Helvetica"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4" face="Calibri, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 15px;"><br>
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