<html><body><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000; font-size:10pt;"><div>Sorry If I'm off base a bit <span>here<span id="GD__CURSOR"></span></span>. I'm hoping it's sorta related. I was recently asked to meet with a "Staff Architect"<span><span id="GD__CURSOR">,</span></span> to field questions about installing a PV array on a public building. Yes, in all fairness I was deliberately vague about some design specifics (I've lost too many designs to the "Bidding Process"). He did ask about my Credentials and nodded in approval (Or so I thought) when I mentioned NABCEP certification. (I didn't feel I needed to mention any other Degrees or Certifications)..</div><div><br></div><div><span>The following is just one of the "Issues" in his 5 page report:<span id="GD__CURSOR"> </span></span><br></div><div><br></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0px; font-size: 16px; font-family: Times New Roman;" mce_style="margin: 0in 0in 0px; font-size: 16px; font-family: Times New Roman;"><span><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0px; font-size: 16px; font-family: Times New Roman;" mce_style="margin: 0in 0in 0px; font-size: 16px; font-family: Times New Roman;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px;" mce_style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px;">B.<span style=""> </span>Electrical Design</span></div> <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0px; font-size: 16px; font-family: Times New Roman;" mce_style="margin: 0in 0in 0px; font-size: 16px; font-family: Times New Roman;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px;" mce_style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px;"> </span></div> <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0px; font-size: 16px; font-family: Times New Roman;" mce_style="margin: 0in 0in 0px; font-size: 16px; font-family: Times New Roman;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px;" mce_style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px;">1.<span style=""> </span>In concept, the idea of plugging the PV array into the building's</span></div> <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0px; font-size: 16px; font-family: Times New Roman;" mce_style="margin: 0in 0in 0px; font-size: 16px; font-family: Times New Roman;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px;" mce_style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px;">electrical system and watching the electric meter run backwards is</span> <br></div><span id="GD__CURSOR"></span></span><span style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px;" mce_style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px;">accurate.<span style=""> </span>However, this needs to be designed carefully by someone who</span></p><div><span> <p style="margin: 0in 0in 0px; font-size: 16px; font-family: Times New Roman;" mce_style="margin: 0in 0in 0px; font-size: 16px; font-family: Times New Roman;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px;" mce_style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px;">knows what the electrical characteristics of the PV system will be and who</span></div> <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0px; font-size: 16px; font-family: Times New Roman;" mce_style="margin: 0in 0in 0px; font-size: 16px; font-family: Times New Roman;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px;" mce_style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px;">can insure that the connections are made properly, that the power coming</span></div> <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0px; font-size: 16px; font-family: Times New Roman;" mce_style="margin: 0in 0in 0px; font-size: 16px; font-family: Times New Roman;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px;" mce_style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px;">from existing building the panels is in sync with the 3 phase power in the</span></div> <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0px; font-size: 16px; font-family: Times New Roman;" mce_style="margin: 0in 0in 0px; font-size: 16px; font-family: Times New Roman;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px;" mce_style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px;">building, who can select the appropriate circuit breaker for the circuit</span></div> <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0px; font-size: 16px; font-family: Times New Roman;" mce_style="margin: 0in 0in 0px; font-size: 16px; font-family: Times New Roman;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px;" mce_style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px;">being used for the connection and who can think through the rest of the</span></div> <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0px; font-size: 16px; font-family: Times New Roman;" mce_style="margin: 0in 0in 0px; font-size: 16px; font-family: Times New Roman;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px;" mce_style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px;">system to make sure that we don't damage some other aspect of the existing</span></div> <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0px; font-size: 16px; font-family: Times New Roman;" mce_style="margin: 0in 0in 0px; font-size: 16px; font-family: Times New Roman;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px;" mce_style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px;">electrical system.</span></div><span id="GD__CURSOR"> </span></span><span><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0px; font-size: 16px; font-family: Times New Roman;" mce_style="margin: 0in 0in 0px; font-size: 16px; font-family: Times New Roman;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px;" mce_style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px;"> </span></div> <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0px; font-size: 16px; font-family: Times New Roman;" mce_style="margin: 0in 0in 0px; font-size: 16px; font-family: Times New Roman;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px;" mce_style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px;">2.<span style=""> </span>When I asked if there were any possibility that the power coming</span></div> <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0px; font-size: 16px; font-family: Times New Roman;" mce_style="margin: 0in 0in 0px; font-size: 16px; font-family: Times New Roman;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px;" mce_style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px;">from the PV array might damage other electrical devices in the building</span></div> <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0px; font-size: 16px; font-family: Times New Roman;" mce_style="margin: 0in 0in 0px; font-size: 16px; font-family: Times New Roman;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px;" mce_style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px;">the answer was "no".<span style=""> </span>I'd get that in writing.</span></div> <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0px; font-size: 16px; font-family: Times New Roman;" mce_style="margin: 0in 0in 0px; font-size: 16px; font-family: Times New Roman;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px;" mce_style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px;"> </span></div> <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0px; font-size: 16px; font-family: Times New Roman;" mce_style="margin: 0in 0in 0px; font-size: 16px; font-family: Times New Roman;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px;" mce_style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px;">3.<span style=""> </span>Again, one option would be to return to the original electrical</span></div> <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0px; font-size: 16px; font-family: Times New Roman;" mce_style="margin: 0in 0in 0px; font-size: 16px; font-family: Times New Roman;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px;" mce_style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px;">engineer that designed the building and have them engineer the connections</span></div> <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0px; font-size: 16px; font-family: Times New Roman;" mce_style="margin: 0in 0in 0px; font-size: 16px; font-family: Times New Roman;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px;" mce_style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px;">of new to old.</span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0px; font-size: 16px; font-family: Times New Roman;" mce_style="margin: 0in 0in 0px; font-size: 16px; font-family: Times New Roman;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px;" mce_style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px;"><br></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0px; font-size: 16px; font-family: Times New Roman;" mce_style="margin: 0in 0in 0px; font-size: 16px; font-family: Times New Roman;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px;" mce_style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px;"><br></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0px; font-size: 16px; font-family: Times New Roman;" mce_style="margin: 0in 0in 0px; font-size: 16px; font-family: Times New Roman;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px;" mce_style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px;">I guess it's fair to say I'm new to the political end of running a business.. but more and more I see this kind of posturing from the Vultures circling the Renewable Energy Industry. </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0px; font-size: 16px; font-family: Times New Roman;" mce_style="margin: 0in 0in 0px; font-size: 16px; font-family: Times New Roman;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px;" mce_style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px;"><br></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0px; font-size: 16px; font-family: Times New Roman;" mce_style="margin: 0in 0in 0px; font-size: 16px; font-family: Times New Roman;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px;" mce_style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px;">It's even more hurtful when you see this crap from "Professional" Firms.<br></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0px; font-size: 16px; font-family: Times New Roman;" mce_style="margin: 0in 0in 0px; font-size: 16px; font-family: Times New Roman;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px;" mce_style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px;"><br></span></div><span id="GD__CURSOR">Rant Off.. db</span></span><br></div><div><br>Dan Brown<br>Foxfire Energy Corp.<br>Renewable Energy Systems<br>(802)-483-2564<br><a href="http://www.Foxfire-Energy.com">www.Foxfire-Energy.com</a><br>NABCEP #092907-44</div><div><br><br></div>
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-------- Original Message --------<br>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Nabcep Stamp<br>
From: "Warren Lauzon" <<a href="mailto:warren@wind-sun.com">warren@wind-sun.com</a>><br>
Date: Thu, March 31, 2011 2:27 pm<br>
To: "RE-wrenches" <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>><br>
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<div dir="ltr"> <div style="font-family: 'Calibri'; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 12pt;"> <div>The difference is that comparing the PE exam to the NABCEP exam is like comparing brain surgeon board certification for a doctor to a first aid course exam.</div> <div> </div> <div>PE is not only a professional exam, it also holds legal status in all 50 states, whereas the NABCEP exam does not.</div> <div style="font-style: normal; display: inline; font-family: 'Calibri'; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: small; font-weight: normal; text-decoration: none;"> <div style="font: 10pt tahoma;"> <div> </div> <div style="background: none repeat scroll 0% 0% rgb(245, 245, 245);"> <div style=""><b>From:</b> <a target="_blank" title="greg@remotepowerinc.com" href="mailto:greg@remotepowerinc.com">Greg Egan</a> </div> <div><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 31, 2011 9:36 AM</div> <div><b>To:</b> <a target="_blank" title="re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a> </div> <div><b>Subject:</b> [RE-wrenches] Nabcep Stamp</div></div></div> <div> </div></div> <div style="font-style: normal; display: inline; font-family: 'Calibri'; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: small; font-weight: normal; text-decoration: none;">Bill & Peter,<br><br>Okay, if I have a PE Stamp that means I went to school and worked under a mentor for an amount of time to qualify for the PE exam. Passed the exam and I got my stamp. <br><br>If I have NABCEP certification that means I worked installing solar electric systems (in my case) for an amount of time and /or went to school to qualify for the NABCEP exam and passed the test. <br><br>I'm having a hard time seeing the difference here. If NABCEP provided a stamp to it's members that they could use to stamp drawings all it would show is that someone who passed the NABCEP exam reviewed the design and hung his or her name on the job. I don't see where NABCEP would be responsible for the design anymore than the PE board or whoever is in charge of giving out PE stamps would be culpable in a case of a bad design by a PE.<br><br>I think NABCEP should provide a stamp with the certificated member's # on it. All it would do is identify them as a NABCEP member. My understanding is that NABCEP was formed to help the general public distinguish between fly by nights and real RE professionals. A stamp would help do that. If the city of xyz decides that they've seen a lot of good work from NABCEP members and that NABCEP certification is good enough for them, what's wrong with that?<br><br>Greg Egan<br>Remote Power Inc.<br>NABCEP PV Installer<br> <div> </div><hr> _______________________________________________
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