<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">I can't believe that reputable installers are actually trying to have this ad removed and have a problem with NABCEP's efforts to give this industry some standards. I can't even count how many jobs I have fixed that were installed by professionals 10 years ago. It is just scary what some installers try to get away with. If someone has been in the industry for 10+ years they should be able to pass the NABCEP. If they expect someone to pay big bucks for their service don't you think they should have some way of backing up their claim of professionalism other than the fact that others have trusted their work? It seems to me that if the test is to hard, takes to long, or is a financial burden to anyone in this industry; you are in the wrong line of work. I pay way more per year in liability insurance and other costs to keep by business open that the $400 test fee (for 3 years) is really just a drop in the bucket. And yes I am NABCEP Certified and proud of it. <div> <br><div>
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; 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-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div><span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Skia; font-size: 16px; ">Aaron Mandelkorn</span></span></div><div><span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Skia; font-size: 16px; "></span></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Skia; font-size: 13px; ">Renewable Energy Outfitters</span></span></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Skia; font-size: 13px; ">P.O. Box 65 </span><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; 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color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; 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"><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Skia" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 13px; ">Salida CO 81201</span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Skia" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 13px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; "><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Skia" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 13px; ">(970)596-3744</span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Skia" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 13px; "><a href="mailto:reosolar@gmail.com">reosolar@gmail.com</a></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Skia" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 13px; "><a href="http://www.reosolar.com">www.reosolar.com</a></span></font></div></span></span></font></div></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Onyx"><br></font></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></span></div></span></div></span></span></span></div></span><br></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
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<br><div><div>On Feb 7, 2011, at 7:59 AM, <a href="mailto:wirewiz@gmail.com">wirewiz@gmail.com</a> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div>Bob-O,<br><br>It sounds like you have some influence as to running this ad when you stated "NO FREAKIN' WAY!" as a response to me asking NABCEP to either stop running it or alter it so it doesn't have a negative effect on non-certificants.<br><br>Obviously, from the responses to my thread, the ad offends some non-certificants. If NABCEP wants to continue to offend, then go ahead, continue to run the ad. <br><br>Please keep in mind that the ad not only offends some non certificants but may also affect their business in a negative way. Offending is one thing but negatively affecting livelihoods is quite another. Grid-tie PV is hard enough to sell "as is" without the added burden of "countering the certification argument" as someone suggested.<br><br>I know NABCEP wants everyone to be certified and we all want to be certified but until we all have the time, money and the stress to do so or until it is actually required then please use your influence to get NABCEP to stop running of this ad. <br><br>Thank you.<br><br>Larry Liesner<br>Wirewiz<br>Westport, CT<br>Phone: 203-644-2404<br>Fax: 203-557-0556<br><a href="mailto:wirewiz@gmail.com">wirewiz@gmail.com</a><br>www.wire-wiz.com<br><br><br><br>On Feb 6, 2011, at 11:36 PM, Bob-O Schultze wrote:<br><br><blockquote type="cite">Larry, Aram, etc,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Let me put this as succinctly as I can:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">NO FREAKIN' WAY!<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">I've sat on the NABCEP BoD for many years -almost since it began. I am not an IBEW or NECA member, nor have I ever been. I've had my CA C-10 since 1991 and I've been a NABCEP Certified PV installer since 2003. For many years we had no IBEW or NECA representation at NABCEP, but because we subscribe to the "Big Tent" theory and feel that all the players need a place at the table, we invited both of those organizations to participate in NABCEP some time ago. We are proud that both of them -along with many others- now sit with us and help to make our testing better and more relevant to today's RE markets. The IBEW is a large and very powerful union, but they do not control NABCEP -not even close. As long as I (and others) serve on the Board, they never will.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">I'm sorry that you have a problem with our Home Power ad, but we're not backing down or changing it. Do you buy your components through distribution? Your distributor is going to tout their dealers as the best in the biz and they all support Certification. You bitching them out too or just us?<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">While there are many highly qualified Wrenches who have not yet achieved Certification or don't seek it for whatever reasons, those that have are among the best in the business. Can a Certificant screw up and make a mistake? Sure. Ain't nobody walking on water here. Do we have a very few Certificants who gamed the system and aren't as good as they should be? Probably. Are you going to stop using medical doctors because of a couple of quacks? Same thing.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Certification not for you? Fine. Be well and good luck. <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">You might want to consider, however, that Certificants command a better wage or get more jobs than the average installer. While it's hard to accurately put a price on that, our research indicates that Certification adds $10K-$15K a year to an installer's pocket. Certification costs $400. and is good for three years. Do the math.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Peace,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Bob-O<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">On Feb 6, 2011, at 10:11 AM, Aram Alexander wrote:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">No you are not. I have been installing grid tied PV for 10 years in ca.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Nabcep is union based and all though it is good but it does not mean by any means the best as we have to fix several nabcep installed systems.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">I personally don't like there advertising either<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Aram <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">On Feb 6, 2011, at 9:13 AM, wirewiz@gmail.com wrote:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Hello Wrenches,<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">NABCEP has a full page ad in Home Power magazine that tells potential PV buyers to "Insist on a NABCEP Certified Installer". That's a great ad if you are certified but not so good if you are not. I know many of you are but lots of us are not yet certified. <br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">NABCEP is doing a great job to ensure that PV is installed by qualified personal but is it their job to unintentionally cause non NABCEP certified installers who are otherwise very qualified to lose business. I don't think so. <br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">I contacted NABCEP about the consequences of this ad and actually asked them to stop running it or at least tone it down so it doesn't cause installers like to me to lose business. They disagreed with me.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Am I being too sensitive here?<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Thank you.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Larry Liesner<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Wirewiz<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Westport, CT<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Phone: 203-644-2404<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Fax: 203-557-0556<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">wirewiz@gmail.com<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">www.wire-wiz.com<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">_______________________________________________<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">List sponsored by Home Power magazine<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Options & settings:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">List rules & etiquette:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Check out participant bios:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">www.members.re-wrenches.org<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><br>_______________________________________________<br>List sponsored by Home Power magazine<br><br>List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org<br><br>Options & settings:<br>http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org<br><br>List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org<br><br>List rules & etiquette:<br>www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm<br><br>Check out participant bios:<br>www.members.re-wrenches.org<br><br></div></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>