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<DIV><SPAN class=718422114-10012011><FONT face=Arial>How efficient is a
capacitor in offsetting the power factor error? 99.9%...<SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA"><SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>±2%...?</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=718422114-10012011><FONT face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA">Jim
Duncan</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org]<B>On Behalf Of
</B>Exeltech<BR><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, January 09, 2011 9:03 PM<BR><B>To:</B>
RE-wrenches<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [RE-wrenches] Xslent?<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=top>--- On Fri, 1/7/11, Peter Parrish
<peter.parrish@calsolareng.com> wrote:<BR><BR>
<P class=yiv1108495799MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">> What ever
is done to reduce the reative power, it has to be done</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=yiv1108495799MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">> in real
time (with a fraction of 0.016 seconds, the 60 Hz
cycle).</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=yiv1108495799MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">> You can’t
wait until later in the evening to solve a problem
that</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=yiv1108495799MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">> is
occuring during the day.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=yiv1108495799MsoNormal><BR></P>
<P class=yiv1108495799MsoNormal>Peter is absolutely correct. Power
factor correction MUST occur on a half-cycle by half-cycle basis, and at
the exact moment of power consumption by the reactive load.
Anything else won't be effective, and may in fact worsen the power
factor at a given point in the grid. <BR></P>
<P class=yiv1108495799MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><BR></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=yiv1108495799MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=yiv1108495799MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">> Real time
compensation can be often done with capacitors alone</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=yiv1108495799MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">> or in
conjuction with some smart electronics. Remember that
for</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=yiv1108495799MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">> short
periods of time capacitors can store considerable
amounts</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=yiv1108495799MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">> of energy
and can smooth out these reactive currents.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=yiv1108495799MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
<BR></SPAN></FONT></P>Capacitors placed across a power line will store
energy for exactly one-half cycle. At that point, the polarity
reverses, the capacitor is discharged to to zero, then recharged to the
opposite polarity. This process repeats every cycle.<BR><BR>What
DOES take place is a phase shift (displacement) in the current flow
relative to the voltage waveform. Power factor correction is done
with capacitor banks (we see them in substations and on power poles) to
offset the power factor of the grid itself, which by its design is
inherently inductive due to long runs of wire. Very large motors
will have individual "tuning" capacitors installed to offset inductive
reactive current flow. These capacitors are disconnected whenever
the respective motor to which they're connected is not in use. On
occasion, excessive capacitance exists in a circuit that must be offset
by inductance, but this is rare.<BR><BR><BR>Like Tom Cruise said in Top
Gun .. "It's complicated."<BR><BR><BR>Dan<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>--- On
<B>Fri, 1/7/11, Peter Parrish
<I><peter.parrish@calsolareng.com></I></B> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid"><BR>From:
Peter Parrish <peter.parrish@calsolareng.com><BR>Subject: Re:
[RE-wrenches] Xslent?<BR>To: "'RE-wrenches'"
<re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org><BR>Date: Friday, January 7,
2011, 5:39 PM<BR><BR>
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<P class=yiv1501302192MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I know only a
little about Power Factor “charges”, but we can figure out some other
“engineering” issues.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P class=yiv1501302192MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=yiv1501302192MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Power Factor
is a measure of the amount of reactive (out-of-phase) power compared
to real (in-phase) power. It is somewhat complicated but the PF is
unity for 100% in phase and 0 for 100% out-of-phase power.
</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=yiv1501302192MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=yiv1501302192MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The important
thing to remember is that (while holding the real power constant) for
PFs less than unity there is in addition to the real power, and
“in-flow” of power and an “outflow” of power four times a cycle. One
might say, “Why do I care about reactive power? It flows in and out
with no net contribution over the long run!). True, but the in-flow
and out-flow represents higher currents on the lines and
more<SPAN> </SPAN>losses. Or it means that there have to be
oversized service conductors to avoid the extra losses. Even if the
losses are avoided, the higher currents can trip overcurrent
protection devices, and of course the utility company needs to supply
(and take back) the extra currents in real time.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=yiv1501302192MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=yiv1501302192MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">What ever is
done to reduce the reative power, it has to be done in real time (with
a fraction of 0.016 seconds, the 60 Hz cycle). You can’t wait until
later in the evening to solve a problem that is occuring during the
day.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=yiv1501302192MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=yiv1501302192MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Real time
compensation can be often done with capacitors alone or in conjuction
with some smart electronics. Remember that for short periods of time
capacitors can store considerable amounts of energy and can smooth out
these reactive currents.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=yiv1501302192MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=yiv1501302192MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I can well
imagine how an inverter can be designed to generate both real and
reactive power, and therfore an inverter can reduce the amount of
reactive power that needs to be supplied by the utility company – but
not when the sun isn’t shining. I suspect that these types of
inverters will have oversized output circuit wiring to handle the
reactive currents without adversely impacting their efficiency rating.
</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=yiv1501302192MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=yiv1501302192MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">If I have
time this weekend, I will take a look at Apparent’s
website.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><SPAN> </SPAN>- Peter</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=yiv1501302192MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Peter T.
Parrish, Ph.D., President<BR>California Solar Engineering, Inc.<BR>820
Cynthia Ave. , Los Angeles , CA 90065<BR>CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert.
031806-26<BR><A href="/mc/compose?to=peter.parrish@calsolareng.com"
target=_blank rel=nofollow
ymailto="mailto:peter.parrish@calsolareng.com">peter.parrish@calsolareng.com</A><SPAN>
</SPAN><BR>Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax
323-258-8885<SPAN> </SPAN></SPAN></FONT><FONT color=navy
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy"><SPAN> </SPAN></SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=navy size=1><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: navy"><SPAN> </SPAN></SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=navy><SPAN style="COLOR: navy"></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN></FONT><FONT face="Times New Roman"
color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=yiv1501302192MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center"
align=center><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<HR tabIndex=-1 align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=yiv1501302192MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">
re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org] <B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Jamie
Johnson<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Friday,
January 07, 2011 2:03 PM<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> RE-wrenches<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [RE-wrenches] <SPAN
class=yiv1501302192SpellE>Xslent</SPAN>?</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<P class=yiv1501302192MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<DIV>
<P class=yiv1501302192MsoNormal><FONT face=Verdana color=black
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">It's an
interesting product for a niche market if it actually works as
they say (<SPAN class=yiv1501302192SpellE>Disclaimer:I</SPAN> am not
claiming that it does), after speaking with an individual who
I believe is the VP of Production for Apparent (use to work
for <SPAN class=yiv1501302192SpellE>EnPhase</SPAN> according to their
website), he claims that the product is currently installed at
the Google campus on a solar canopy for some of their EV
chargers (can anyone verify this?)</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=yiv1501302192MsoNormal><FONT face=Verdana color=black
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=yiv1501302192MsoNormal><FONT face=Verdana color=black
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">They have
several other beta installs as well, however the individual I
spoke to said they were only installing small systems at beta
test sites (where the <SPAN
class=yiv1501302192SpellE>Util</SPAN> co charges for VAR's using
separate meters like for EV charging) for now. No
pricing has been set for the inverters, and they are not available for
sale to installers yet.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=yiv1501302192MsoNormal><FONT face=Verdana color=black
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=yiv1501302192MsoNormal><FONT face=Verdana color=black
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Apparently
they claim the inverter can create/produce VAR's by taking 1
watt of power from the grid at night or from the solar output during
the day and turning it into approximately 9 VAR's to offset the
customers charges for VAR usage from the Grid. This is
where the <SPAN class=yiv1501302192SpellE>KVAh</SPAN> production on
the graph before sunrise and after sunset comes
from.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=yiv1501302192MsoNormal><FONT face=Verdana color=black
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=yiv1501302192MsoNormal><FONT face=Verdana color=black
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">I still
would need to see a third party head to head comparison test before I
believed it. Again niche market inverter for when the
utility co charges for VAR's.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=yiv1501302192MsoNormal><FONT face=Verdana color=black
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=yiv1501302192MsoNormal><FONT face=Verdana color=black
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Jamie</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=yiv1501302192MsoNormal><FONT face=Verdana color=black
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=yiv1501302192MsoNormal><FONT face=Verdana color=black
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=yiv1501302192MsoNormal><FONT face=Verdana color=black
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=yiv1501302192MsoNormal><FONT face=Verdana color=black
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE id=yiv1501302192replyBlockquote
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 4.15pt; BORDER-LEFT: 1pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<DIV id=yiv1501302192wmQuoteWrapper>
<P class=yiv1501302192MsoNormal><FONT face=Verdana color=black
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">--------
Original Message --------<BR>Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] <SPAN
class=yiv1501302192SpellE>Xslent</SPAN>?<BR>From: August Goers
<<A href="/mc/compose?to=august@luminalt.com" target=_blank
rel=nofollow
ymailto="mailto:august@luminalt.com">august@luminalt.com</A>><BR>Date:
Fri, January 07, 2011 10:24 am<BR>To: RE-wrenches <<A
href="/mc/compose?to=re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"
target=_blank rel=nofollow
ymailto="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</A>><BR><BR>Hi
All -<BR><BR>Thanks for the helpful info! We did a little more
research on our end and<BR>I guess Apparent is the new brand name
for the <SPAN class=yiv1501302192SpellE>Xslent</SPAN> product.
What<BR>baffles me is the chart where they show that they're
producing power<BR>before and after sunrise and sunset:<BR><BR><A
href="http://www.apparent.com/products/mgi.html" target=_blank
rel=nofollow>http://www.apparent.com/products/mgi.html</A><BR><BR>The
system must include batteries? Someone on their marketing team
is<BR>really going to town...<BR><BR>Best,
August<BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: <A
href="/mc/compose?to=re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org"
target=_blank rel=nofollow
ymailto="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</A><BR>[<A
href="/mc/compose?to=re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org"
target=_blank rel=nofollow
ymailto="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</A>]
On Behalf Of jay <SPAN
class=yiv1501302192SpellE>peltz</SPAN><BR>Sent: Thursday, January
06, 2011 4:43 PM<BR>To: RE-wrenches<BR>Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches]
<SPAN class=yiv1501302192SpellE>Xslent</SPAN>?<BR><BR>HI
Peter,<BR><BR>I agree with you that for now on residential it makes
no sense.<BR>However for commercial that might have to pay extra for
PF issues, to have<BR>the inverter adjust for this makes
sense.<BR>Its the reason they( inverter companies ) are doing
it.<BR><SPAN class=yiv1501302192SpellE>I"ve</SPAN> heard a better
more complete reason of course from Bill Brooks, who<BR>maybe can
chime in.<BR><BR>sorry got away from me,<BR><BR><BR>jay<BR><SPAN
class=yiv1501302192SpellE>peltz</SPAN> power<BR>On Jan 6, 2011, at
2:34 PM, Peter Parrish wrote:<BR><BR>> I can't understand how any
inverter WOULDN'T deliver its power with the<BR>> voltage and
current 100% IN PHASE.<BR>><BR>> When the voltage and current
are not 100% in-phase that represents<BR>reactive<BR>> power.
Reactive power flows positive for a quarter of the AC cycle,
then<BR>> negative for a quarter of a cycle, then positive and
then negative. The<BR>net<BR>> result over one AC cycle is ZERO
power delivered to the load.<BR>><BR>> So reactive power is
worthless.<BR>><BR>> Worse, it results in higher currents (and
voltages) for the same amount<BR>of<BR>> in-phase power, putting
additional stress on circuits.<BR>><BR>> -
Peter<BR>><BR>><BR>> Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D.,
President<BR>> California Solar Engineering, Inc.<BR>> 820
Cynthia Ave. , Los Angeles , CA 90065<BR>> CA <SPAN
class=yiv1501302192SpellE>Lic</SPAN>. 854779, NABCEP Cert.
031806-26<BR>> <A
href="/mc/compose?to=peter.parrish@calsolareng.com" target=_blank
rel=nofollow
ymailto="mailto:peter.parrish@calsolareng.com">peter.parrish@calsolareng.com</A><BR>>
Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax
323-258-8885<BR>><BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR><BR>_______________________________________________</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></DIV><BR>-----Inline
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