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Jason,<br>
With 2V individual cells in a 24V system, you can generally get away
with removing one failed cell, and reconfiguring setpoints to
11/12ths of normal (22V nominal). So a single string is OK if using
individual cells. In a 48V system, removal of one 6V battery still
works at 42V, but you can't pull it off in a 24V system.<br>
<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span class="il"><b style="">Allan</b></span><b
style=""> Sindelar</b><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><br>
<a href="mailto:Allan@positiveenergysolar.com"
target="_blank"><span class="il">Allan</span>@positiveenergysolar.com</a><br>
NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer<br>
EE98J Journeyman Electrician<br>
<b style="">Positive Energy, Inc.</b><br>
3201 Calle Marie<br>
Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507<br>
<b style="">505 424-1112</b><br>
<a href="http://www.positiveenergysolar.com/"
target="_blank">www.positiveenergysolar.com</a></span></p>
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<br>
On 12/29/2010 9:11 AM, Jason Szumlanski wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:8EA9619B465C95438B31C92F854FB7966C09BF@exchange.fafcosolar.local"
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);">Good points, Allan, and I agree about the brand
choices if you can afford them. Regarding the strings, I
always try to go with two series strings for remote
locations. In the event of a battery failure, there is
always the option to go down to one string in an emergency.
Of course, most of my off-grid experience is in the
Caribbean where replacement batteries are often 4-5 weeks
away.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:
"Cambria","serif"; color: rgb(31, 73,
125);">Jason Szumlanski<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:
"Cambria","serif"; color: rgb(31, 73,
125);">Fafco Solar<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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padding: 3pt 0in 0in;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"; color:
windowtext;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:
10pt; font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"; color:
windowtext;"> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>] <b>On
Behalf Of </b>Allan Sindelar<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, December 29, 2010 10:41 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dahlsolar@gmail.com">dahlsolar@gmail.com</a>; RE-wrenches<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Trace inverters
undercharging batteries.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;">Jesse,<br>
Don't waste your time on those batteries; they are all toast.
Don't replace them with the same; four strings is poor design.
Read the article about off-grid batteries in the current Home
Power, and then sell the customer a set of 12 (or 24; either
one string or two is OK) 2V industrial cells, such as HUPs
from Northwest Energy Storage or K-series Surrettes. Size
unknown. The existing full bank was 1400 A/hr if the cell
cases had black covers, 1600 A/hr if the tops are blue, to
give you an idea.<br>
<br>
BP modules from 1998 would have most likely been 12V 75W or
85W, meaning 900-1000 watts; too small an array for that size
battery bank if the home is used full-time; OK for a seasonal
or weekend cabin.<br>
<br>
Only with new batteries can you even tell what the inverters
are doing. My hunch is that the inverters aren't at fault.
However, given the poor quality of the original installation,
they likely are set to default setpoints, which can charge at
a very high rate (about 220A at 28.8V for two if the gennie is
big enough) but won't get batteries full (and can't equalize
them), as the default setpoints are too low. And I'll bet
dollars to doughnuts the default setpoints are in place, as
the inverters have been shut down sometime in the last 12
years, losing any original programming settings.<br>
<br>
You might see about getting an experienced off-gridder in your
frozen region to work with you. Maybe Darryl could consult
now, then make one trip out to set up the system once the new
batteries are in. This was the classic late-90s system with a
later charge controller upgrade, but if you have never worked
with this equipment, you're likely to set it up for a repeat
failure years down the road.<br>
<br>
Just read Jamie's post - while his advice is spot on, of
course, you need to decide if it's worth your while. I'd be
more inclined to try his approach if the battery bank was
three years old, not 12. That's a huge amount of time spent,
working with acid and an unknown set of hazards, with at best
the possibility of a few years' use. I'd suggest that unless
it's your father-in-law's cabin, and you value the chance to
hang out there for a week, it's not worth your time or the
customer's, especially given that you acknowledge having
little off-grid experience. <br>
<br>
Allan<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="il"><b>Allan</b></span><b>
Sindelar</b><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Allan@positiveenergysolar.com"
target="_blank"><span class="il"><u>Allan</u></span><u>@positiveenergysolar.com</u></a><br>
NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer<br>
EE98J Journeyman Electrician<br>
<b>Positive Energy, Inc.</b><br>
3201 Calle Marie<br>
Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507<br>
<b>505 424-1112</b><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.positiveenergysolar.com/"
target="_blank"><u>www.positiveenergysolar.com</u></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
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