<HTML><HEAD><TITLE></TITLE>
<META content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv=Content-Type></HEAD>
<BODY dir=ltr bgColor=#ffffff text=#000000>
<DIV dir=ltr>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV>We have seen a few instances of the batteries themselves blowing, but not
from hydrogen that we could tell. In one case a guy decided to fast charge his
battery bank with a DC welding generator...</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt tahoma">
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A
title=allan@positiveenergysolar.com
href="mailto:allan@positiveenergysolar.com">Allan Sindelar</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, December 15, 2010 11:10 AM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</A>
</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery based hydrogen
incidents</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none">Knowledge
of two incidents - sort of.<BR>About ten years ago a Hydrocap on an L16 blew
apart. Not our installation; I suspect that it became plugged up or overheated,
as the array had been recently enlarged. Explosion was contained within the
battery enclosure; just made a mess.<BR><BR>About four years ago a small 12V
automotive battery used only to start a 6.5 Onan generator blew up, causing
modest permanent hearing damage to the homeowner. I wasn't there, and heard
about it from her. This wasn't a venting issue, as the battery was on the floor
in a ventilated room, but rather apparently a plugged cap in the battery itself.
<BR><BR>Otherwise, nothing.<BR>Allan<BR><BR>
<DIV class=moz-signature>
<META name=ProgId content=Word.Document>
<META name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 11">
<META name=Originator content="Microsoft Word 11"><LINK rel=File-List
href="signature_files/filelist.xml">
<STYLE>
<!--
/* Style Definitions */
p.msonormal, li.msonormal, div.msonormal
{mso-style-parent:"";
margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
mso-pagination:widow-orphan;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";
color:black;}
a:link, span.msohyperlink
{color:blue;}
a:visited, span.msohyperlinkfollowed
{color:blue;}
span.il
{mso-style-name:il;}
@page section1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in;
mso-header-margin:.5in;
mso-footer-margin:.5in;
mso-paper-source:0;}
div.section1
{page:section1;}
-->
</STYLE>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=il><B>Allan</B></SPAN><B> Sindelar</B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><BR><A href="mailto:Allan@positiveenergysolar.com"
target=_blank><SPAN class=il>Allan</SPAN>@positiveenergysolar.com</A><BR>NABCEP
Certified Photovoltaic Installer<BR>EE98J Journeyman Electrician<BR><B>Positive
Energy, Inc.</B><BR>3201 Calle Marie<BR>Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507<BR><B>505
424-1112</B><BR><A href="http://www.positiveenergysolar.com/"
target=_blank>www.positiveenergysolar.com</A></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV><BR>On
12/15/2010 10:56 AM, Exeltech wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=mid:512885.21113.qm@web113409.mail.gq1.yahoo.com type="cite">
<TABLE style="COLOR: #000000" border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=top>38+ years in RE. Knowledge of one incident (an
off-grid friend).<BR><BR>Very sunny day. Very windy. My
friend had both PV and a wind generator (still does). He had just
stepped out of the room where the batteries were located when (as he
described it) he heard something like a loud gunshot. He went back
inside to find one of the L16s exploded, top completely blown off, and
case broken much of the way down one side.<BR><BR>Had the incident
occurred only minutes earlier, injuries could have resulted. He
has since relocated his batteries to a dedicated (and vented) battery
space.<BR><BR>Dan<BR><BR><BR>--- On <B>Wed, 12/15/10, Kent Osterberg
<I><A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E
href="mailto:kent@coveoregon.com">mailto:kent@coveoregon.com</A></I></B>
wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><BR>From:
Kent Osterberg <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E
href="mailto:kent@coveoregon.com">mailto:kent@coveoregon.com</A><BR>Subject:
Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery based hydrogen incidents<BR>To:
"RE-wrenches" <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</A><BR>Date:
Wednesday, December 15, 2010, 11:21 AM<BR><BR>
<DIV id=yiv1034715313>Sounds like, in general, that the off-grid
industry has been fortunate to not have hydrogen explosions.
That's good. No explosions here either. But one shouldn't
take that as evidence that it couldn't happen. I don't believe
this is a circumstance where it is better to be lucky than good.
That's why I recommend doing the calculations.<BR><BR>Kent
Osterberg<BR>Blue Mountain Solar<BR><BR><BR><BR>Dana wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<STYLE><!--
#yiv1034715313
_filtered #yiv1034715313 {font-family:calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
_filtered #yiv1034715313 {font-family:tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
_filtered #yiv1034715313 {font-family:"Century Gothic";panose-1:2 11 5 2 2 2 2 2 2 4;}
#yiv1034715313
#yiv1034715313 p.yiv1034715313msonormal, #yiv1034715313 li.yiv1034715313msonormal, #yiv1034715313 div.yiv1034715313msonormal
{margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"serif";color:black;}
#yiv1034715313 a:link, #yiv1034715313 span.yiv1034715313msohyperlink
{color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}
#yiv1034715313 a:visited, #yiv1034715313 span.yiv1034715313msohyperlinkfollowed
{color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}
#yiv1034715313 span.yiv1034715313emailstyle17
{font-family:"sans-serif";color:windowtext;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;text-decoration:none none;}
#yiv1034715313 .yiv1034715313msochpdefault
{font-size:10.0pt;}
_filtered #yiv1034715313 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
#yiv1034715313 div.yiv1034715313wordsection1
{}
--></STYLE>
<DIV class=yiv1034715313WordSection1>
<P class=yiv1034715313MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 14pt">Ken – </SPAN></P>
<P class=yiv1034715313MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 14pt"><BR></SPAN></P>
<P class=yiv1034715313MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 14pt">To meet the flow have run
2 and 3 fans to meet the flow. 2” output from the fan into a 4”
header with a matching 2.5” inlet as far away on the lowest portion
of the battery box.</SPAN></P>
<P class=yiv1034715313MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 14pt"></SPAN> </P>
<P class=yiv1034715313MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 14pt"></SPAN> </P>
<P class=yiv1034715313MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 14pt">In 22+ years in off grid
installations I have yet to see or even hear of one hydrogen
explosion. I get repeatedly asked why we have to go to the efforts
we go to for box and venting. I am not able to provide even one
incident that I have heard rumor of.</SPAN></P>
<P class=yiv1034715313MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 14pt"></SPAN> </P>
<P class=yiv1034715313MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 14pt">Q - How many battery
based hydrogen incidents have happened in our collective
experience?</SPAN></P>
<P class=yiv1034715313MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 14pt"></SPAN> </P>
<P class=yiv1034715313MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 14pt"><BR></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<P class=yiv1034715313MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: windowtext">Dana
Orzel</SPAN></P>
<P class=yiv1034715313MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext">Great Solar Works, Inc</SPAN></P>
<P class=yiv1034715313MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: windowtext">E -
<A class=yiv1034715313moz-txt-link-abbreviated
href="wlmailhtml:/mc/compose?to=dana@solarwork.com" rel=nofollow
target=_blank ymailto="mailto:dana@solarwork.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">wlmailhtml:/mc/compose?to=dana@solarwork.com</A></SPAN></P>
<P class=yiv1034715313MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: windowtext">V -
970.626.5253</SPAN></P>
<P class=yiv1034715313MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: windowtext">F -
970.626.4140</SPAN></P>
<P class=yiv1034715313MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: windowtext">C -
970.209.4076</SPAN></P>
<P class=yiv1034715313MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: windowtext">web
- <A class=yiv1034715313moz-txt-link-abbreviated
href="http://www.solarwork.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank
moz-do-not-send="true">www.solarwork.com</A></SPAN></P>
<P class=yiv1034715313MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext"></SPAN> </P>
<P class=yiv1034715313MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext">"Responsible Technologies for Responsible
People since 1988"</SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></SPAN></P>
<P class=yiv1034715313MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: windowtext">Do
not ever belive anything, but seriously trust through
action.</SPAN></P></DIV>
<P class=yiv1034715313MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 14pt"></SPAN> </P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: rgb(181,196,223); BORDER-LEFT: rgb(181,196,223); PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: rgb(181,196,223) 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: rgb(181,196,223); PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in" class=yiv1034715313MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A
class=yiv1034715313moz-txt-link-abbreviated
href="wlmailhtml:/mc/compose?to=re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org"
rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">wlmailhtml:/mc/compose?to=re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</A>
[<A class=yiv1034715313moz-txt-link-freetext
href="wlmailhtml:/mc/compose?to=re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org"
rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">wlmailhtml:/mc/compose?to=re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</A>]
<B>On Behalf Of </B>Kent Osterberg<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, December
14, 2010 12:07 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Wrenches<BR><B>Subject:</B>
[RE-wrenches] Battery Venting</SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"
class=yiv1034715313MsoNormal> </P>
<P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in" class=yiv1034715313MsoNormal>Fellow
Wrenches,<BR><BR>The discussion about battery venting reminds me of
a useful and inexpensive program, <A
href="http://pocketengineer.design.officelive.com/battery_ventilation.aspx"
rel=nofollow target=_blank moz-do-not-send="true">BattMV</A>, for
determining ventilation requirements per EN-50272. EN-50272 is
a European standard used to determine how much air flow is needed
for a room, I don't know of a equivalent standard used in the
U.S. It takes a surprising amount of ventilation. For a
400-AH 48-volt L16 bank charged at 57.6 volts and 24 amps, it's
about 7 CFM just to keep the %H2 down to 4%. A 12-volt Zephyr
vent is good for about 5 CFM! If you think you are
venting enough, take some time and study this issue.<BR><BR>Kent
Osterberg<BR>Blue Mountain Solar</P></DIV><PRE><HR SIZE=4 width="90%"></PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR><PRE wrap=""><FIELDSET class=mimeAttachmentHeader></FIELDSET>
_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Home Power magazine
List Address: <A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</A>
Options & settings:
<A class=moz-txt-link-freetext href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</A>
List-Archive: <A class=moz-txt-link-freetext href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</A>
List rules & etiquette:
<A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</A>
Check out participant bios:
<A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org">www.members.re-wrenches.org</A>
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<P>
<HR>
_______________________________________________<BR>List sponsored by Home Power
magazine<BR><BR>List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org<BR><BR>Options
&
settings:<BR>http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org<BR><BR>List-Archive:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org<BR><BR>List
rules & etiquette:<BR>www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm<BR><BR>Check out
participant bios:<BR>www.members.re-wrenches.org<BR><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<P>Northern Arizona Wind & Sun - Electricity from the sun since
1979<BR>--------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><A
href="http://store.solar-electric.com/">Online Solar Store</A><BR><A
href="http://www.wind-sun.com/ForumVB/">Free Solar Discussion
Forum</A><BR>--------------------------------------------------------------------</P></DIV></DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>