<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">I'll agree with you, Dana, although I think setting the batteries in the ground will help in more of the cases. <div>Battery optimum temperature is actually lower than the standard test temp of 25C (77F).</div><div>When you overlay the graph showing increased cycle life of batteries at lower temps with the capacity vs temp graph, optimum battery temp is actually around 55 - 60 dg F. </div><div>(Cycle life is increased by around 15%, while capacity is reduced by only about 5%)</div><div>The ideal then, would have the batteries in contact with the core earth temp of 57F.<div><div>This means also, that floor heating (at around 100F) could possibly overheat the batteries in direct contact. </div><div>In cold climates, I think an adjacent unheated space, that picks up some stray building heat would be optimum. (basement, garage on shared wall with house, adjacent outdoor closet, battery box in earth)</div><div>Also, you only need the Average room temp to be 57F, it could get much colder at night for a few hours)</div><div>After moving my system indoors for better cold weather performance, and then back outdoors after 2 years because of the hydrogen sulfide smell and inverter buzzing, I've suffered first hand with this tough decision.</div><div><br></div><div>On venting: its easy to prevent the explosive build up of gases, but its much tougher to prevent the hydrogen sulfide from permeating into the living space when EQing. (H2S can be deadly)</div><div>I've never had an indoor system I was completely happy with, BTW, even with Zephyr power vents.</div><div><br></div><div>On insulating: if we insulate, we only insulate the bottom and the sides up to the height of the fluid level. (that's the core thermal mass) Venting occurs at the top of the battery only, with the air space inside the top of the battery acting as somewhat of a thermal break.</div><div><br></div><div><div>
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><div>R. Walters</div><div><a href="mailto:ray@solarray.com">ray@solarray.com</a></div><div>Solar Engineer</div><div><br class="khtml-block-placeholder"></div><div><br class="khtml-block-placeholder"></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></span>
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<br><div><div>On Dec 14, 2010, at 11:46 AM, Dana wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; "><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif; ">Nathan –<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif; "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif; ">I think the thread here is it totally depends on your situation. I am sticking my neck out here but what the heck.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif; ">After 23 years at this is what I do.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif; "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif; ">Long winter and cool summer night – probably insulate as keeping warm is to your benefit with a higher winter temp. If it is in a heated space I never insulate.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif; "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif; ">Hot summer and mild winter – You could probably go either way insulate or not. Or insulate for winter and remove in summer. This is a big expense if you were to hire it out [for a homeowner].<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif; "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif; ">Mild year round – why bother to insulate.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif; "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif; ">Long hot summers Mild winter - Sink it in the ground if it would help reduce summer temps?<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif; "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif; ">Ok let me have it.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif; "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-family: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif; ">Dana Orzel<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-family: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif; ">Great Solar Works, Inc<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-family: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif; ">E -<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:dana@solarwork.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">dana@solarwork.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-family: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif; ">V - 970.626.5253<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-family: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif; ">F - 970.626.4140<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-family: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif; ">C - 970.209.4076<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-family: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif; ">web -<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.solarwork.com/" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">www.solarwork.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-family: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif; "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-family: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif; ">"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-family: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif; ">Do not ever belive anything, but seriously trust through action.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif; "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="border-right-style: none; border-bottom-style: none; border-left-style: none; border-width: initial; border-color: initial; border-top-style: solid; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt; padding-top: 3pt; padding-right: 0in; padding-bottom: 0in; padding-left: 0in; "><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; ">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Nathan Jones<br><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Tuesday, December 14, 2010 11:36 AM<br><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>RE-wrenches<br><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [RE-wrenches] To insulate a battery bank DEPENDS on a lot of factors.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div>_______________________________________________<br>List sponsored by Home Power magazine<br><br>List Address:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>Options & settings:<br><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>List-Archive:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>List rules & etiquette:<br><a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm" style="color: blue; 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