Joel <br><br>You are correct about the UL testing requiring 2 x system voltage plus 1000 volts. The UL requirement is also to ramp up to the full voltage in 5 sec and held for 1 min, which I believe most meggers are capable of. The test is considered a failure if greater than 50 uA current is measured. The difference is that the connection is between the shorted outputs of the module and the ground. In the case of the required factory tests one end of the high pot testing device is connected to the frame (ground) and one point is connected to both the negative and positive module terminals shorted together. In the UL test it is done with the module submerged one terminal of the high pot tester is connnected to a ground plane in the water and the other terminal is connected to the negative and positive terminals shorted together. In both cases the voltage potential across the module terminals (through the module) is 0, but between the terminals and ground is the 2 x system voltage plus 1000. The module never sees 2200 volts potential across the cells and diodes. The test is normally run again reversing the polarity, but the terminals still are shorted together. I have performed this test in the factory and observed it being done this way during UL testing. <br>
<b><br>UL1703 Section 21 Leakage Current Test </b>specifies shorted module output circuits System Voltage is the test level required<br><br>21.5 All accessible parts and surfaces are to be tested for leakage current. <b>The positive and negative<br>
terminals of an unilluminated module are to be connected together and to one terminal of a dc power<br>supply.</b> Both polarities of the source connection are to be used, unless it can be shown that one polarity<br>will represent both. Leakage currents are to be measured between the part or surface and the other<br>
terminal of the power supply. System Voltage is the test level required and <br><br><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">UL1703 Section 26 Dielectric Voltage-Withstand Test </span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">does not specify shorted module outputs, but does specify 2 x system voltage plus 1000V<br>
<br><b>UL1703 27 Wet Insulation Test</b></span> does specify Shorted output terminals of the module (and only 500vdc)<br>27.3 After two min of immersion in the solution, the <b>insulation resistance between the shorted output<br>
terminals of the module or panel and the solution is to be measured, in both polarities</b>, with an instrument<br>having a voltage of 500 Vdc.<br><br><b>43 Factory Dielectric Voltage-Withstand Test</b> Also doe snot specify shorted out puts<br>
<br>The IEC 61215 is more explicit in all test cases it specifies using the shorted output terminals for all these tests. IMHO the IEC is the better document to follow (which is what the listing agencies all do when things are not defined well in UL1703). The industry will be much better off once we standardize with the IEC!<br>
<br>In my experience all three tests for UL listing are performed in the same way on shorted output terminals. I would recommend that the megger test be performed in the same way especially for field confirmation procedures for commissioning a system. This will still give you the intended results (identifying a potential short to ground) without the risk of applying unnecessary voltage across the module cells or diodes. I do not want to be explaining a failed module to the manufacturer or customer after subjecting it to 2200 + volts across the cells or diodes! You would never meg across an inverter input either, even though they are also high pot tested for listing. Of course standard procedures for megging wire runs without the inverter or modules in the circuit can be done at those higher levels without a problem.<br>
<br>Bill<br><br>Bill Hoffer PE<br><div class="gmail_quote">Sunergy Engineering Services PLLC<br>2504 Columbia Ave NW<br>East Wenatchee WA 98802-3941<br><a href="mailto:SunEngSer@gmail.com" target="_blank">SunEngSer@gmail.com</a> (509)470-7762<br>
Cell(509)679-6165<br><br><br>On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 9:05 AM, Joel Davidson <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:joel.davidson@sbcglobal.net">joel.davidson@sbcglobal.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<div bgcolor="#ffffff">
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Hello Drake,</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">I think you should talk to a Sanyo Solar
engineer to get accurate information. Every Sanyo and other brand UL
listed modules must be dielectric voltage-withstand factory tested to 2 times
system voltage plus 1,000 volts. I hi-pot test modules in the factory at
3,000 volts so they will meet UL and also IEC standards. I megger field test
arrays at 1,000 volts to find module, connector, and wiring problems. Megging at
500 volts is ok, but it may not reveal wire insulation problems.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div><font color="#888888">
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Joel Davidson</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
</font><blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding-left: 5px; padding-right: 0px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;"><div><div></div><div class="h5">
<div style="font: 10pt arial;">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="font: 10pt arial; background: none repeat scroll 0% 0% rgb(228, 228, 228);"><b>From:</b>
<a title="drake.chamberlin@redwoodalliance.org" href="mailto:drake.chamberlin@redwoodalliance.org" target="_blank">Drake</a> </div>
<div style="font: 10pt arial;"><b>To:</b> <a title="re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">RE-wrenches</a> </div>
<div style="font: 10pt arial;"><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 17, 2010 7:36
AM</div>
<div style="font: 10pt arial;"><b>Subject:</b> [RE-wrenches] Megger for array
testing</div>
<div><br></div>Hello Wrenches,<br><br>Looking through the archives on using a
Megger for testing modules, it appears that it is best to keep voltages
to 500VDC. I read all that I could find. <br><br>Talking to a Sanyo
representative, I was told that keeping test voltage under 600 would not void
the warranty or be an issue with UL. He said they have tested Sanyo
modules up to 1000 VDC with no problems.<br><br>As a final test on a system, I
want to Megger test the array from the terminations at the inverter. The
approach I'd plan to use is:
<ul>
<li>Clamp the Fluke 1587 negative to the enclosuer ground.
</li><li>Put the positive test lead to the negative conductor from the array and
test
</li><li>Put the positive test lead to the positive conductor from the array and
test </li></ul>All tests would be done at 500 V. The modules are
illuminated, but there is no significant reading from either positive or
negative terminal to ground.
<ul>
<li>The conductors would be removed from their terminals at the inverter and
be in free air.
</li><li>The conductors would be continuous through the string of 10 Sanyo 210
modules. </li></ul>My questions are:
<ul>
<li>Does anyone see a problem in this approach?
</li><li>Since the array often has 500 VDC open circuit readings and shows no
indication of a fault whatever, would this test accomplish anything more
than the standard voltage to ground tests I've already done?
</li><li>Is there any danger to diodes or other PV components? </li></ul>Thanks in
advance.<br><br>Drake <br></div></div></blockquote></div></blockquote></div><br>