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I have recently been dealing with a Chad Lampkin system. This is an
off-grid system with a combination 120V DCnom combination inverter
and charge controller. The plus side is that it works well and has
been quite reliable. And the battery cables and interconnects are
#10 AWG. I think he also makes inverters in the 144V and 180V DC
ranges.<br>
<br>
The downsides are that it takes 24 6V batteries to make a string, so
battery replacement is expensive - even golf carts (equivalent to 6
strings at 24V, or 1320 A/hr) are $3K or so. And this system badly
needs new batteries, due to chronic undercharging. The integrated
controller is a voltage-actuated series controller, similar to an
old Trace C30A or Bobier Sun Selector. Chad prefers L16s at minimum,
believing (strongly) in the Bobier school of controller logic.<br>
<br>
Also, the array is ten BP90s in series, meaning at most about 5A of
charging current per array (when they were new). With L16s, that a
max charge rate of C/70; with golf carts it's max C/44. But it's
still only 900 watts (when new), too small to run the house it's
serving, and expensive to add to.<br>
<br>
Another homeowner in this area with an early Lampkin system claims
he got 17 years from a set of L16s. The difference is that he has a
large array relative to his load profile, so the batteries pretty
much had ideal conditions of shallow cycling and consistently high
SOC.<br>
<br>
I haven't actually done anything with this system, just researched
it as a consultation for the hapless homeowner.<br>
<br>
Anyway, on to the GT question: if indeed it's a Lampkin system
(infinitesimally more info at Michiganenergyworks.com), it operates
in the ~120-210 VDC range. It seems to me that you could make it
work only by putting a 120V DC-coil relay (maybe MDI, who made the
mercury contactors used in old APT/Ananda Powercenters) - they make
a 120V coil model - operated by the charge control relay in the
charger, connected to N.O. terminals. When the charge controller got
the batteries to full and triggered the relay to open, the array
energy would be diverted to a batteryless inverter with a compatible
input voltage range (as others have suggested). What I don't know is
whether the MEW system has a relay built in that would allow this
diversion function, and what other issues would come up. And of
course, there's still the 5-minute IEEE 929 wait-to-interconnect
each time the controller relay opened, so if there's a load on the
batteries and the voltage drops quickly, usable sell energy would
end up somewhere in the range of zero...<br>
<br>
Does this help with your explanation to your customer, Bob?<br>
<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span class="il"><b style="">Allan</b></span><b
style=""> Sindelar</b><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><br>
<a href="mailto:Allan@positiveenergysolar.com"
target="_blank"><span class="il">Allan</span>@positiveenergysolar.com</a><br>
NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer<br>
EE98J Journeyman Electrician<br>
<b style="">Positive Energy, Inc.</b><br>
3201 Calle Marie<br>
Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507<br>
<b style="">505 424-1112</b><br>
<a href="http://www.positiveenergysolar.com/"
target="_blank">www.positiveenergysolar.com</a></span></p>
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<br>
On 11/16/2010 6:22 AM, bob ellison wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:01f101cb8591$62e22110$28a66330$@com"
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="4" color="black" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size: 14pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: black;">Mick,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="4" color="black" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size: 14pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: black;">I
am
afraid that is what he wants to do, I am also getting the
impression that his
power bill is just a few bucks so I don’t see a need. He
does.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="4" color="black" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size: 14pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: black;">Later,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="4" color="black" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size: 14pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: black;">Bob
Ellison<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="4" color="black" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size: 14pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: black;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div style="border-right: medium none; border-width: 1pt medium
medium; border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181,
196, 223) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color; padding:
3pt 0in 0in;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif";
font-weight: bold;"></span></font></b><font size="2"
face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif";"><b><span
style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Monday,
November 15, 2010
8:44 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:glenn.burt@glbcc.com">glenn.burt@glbcc.com</a>;
RE-wrenches<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b>
Re: [RE-wrenches] 120
volt grid tie inverter<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span
style="font-size: 12pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span
style="font-size: 12pt;">Agreed, Glenn~ and that SMA unit
has a nice low input voltage
requirement. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span
style="font-size: 12pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span
style="font-size: 12pt;">Bob, might your client be
wanting a "grid intertie capable"
inverter which can run on a 120 volt battery bank--the
medium voltage battery
system which Chad Lampkin had championed? If so, it's
game over for several
reasons, including the NEC.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><font
size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:
12pt;">Jolliness,<o:p></o:p><br clear="all">
Mick Abraham, Proprietor<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span
style="font-size: 12pt;">On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at
6:29 PM, Glenn Burt <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:glenn.burt@glbcc.com">glenn.burt@glbcc.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span
style="font-size: 12pt;">I think there is still an
SMA 700W inverter available that uses 120VAC.<br>
<font color="#888888"><span style="color: rgb(136,
136, 136);">-Glenn</span></font><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><font
size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span
style="font-size: 12pt;"><br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 11:14 AM<br>
To: RE-wrenches<br>
Subject: [RE-wrenches] 120 volt grid tie
inverter<br>
<br>
I have a customer who wants to grid tie a 120
volt dc system<br>
Does anyone know of an inverter that can do
this?<br>
<br>
Thanks<br>
Bob ellison<br>
</span></font></p>
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