<html><body><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000; font-size:10pt;"><div>Hey Todd.. if you have one (or more) L16s at like 4 volts when they should all be 6 something <span>(be sure you separate the strings when you test them)<span id="GD__CURSOR"></span></span>.. chances are that battery is toast (shorted cell) and all the charging in the world will not bring it back.. all your doing is over charging the other string... <br></div><div><br></div><div><br>Dan Brown<br>Foxfire Energy Corp.<br>Renewable Energy Systems<br>(802)-483-2564<br><a href="http://www.Foxfire-Energy.com">www.Foxfire-Energy.com</a><br>NABCEP #092907-44</div><div><br><br></div>
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-------- Original Message --------<br>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery cell shorting<br>
From: <a href="mailto:toddcory@finestplanet.com">toddcory@finestplanet.com</a><br>
Date: Sun, October 24, 2010 1:36 am<br>
To: "RE-wrenches" <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>><br>
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<font face="arial" size="4">I have a client right now doing a last ditch heavy equalizing cycle to try to save his 5 year old, 24 volt bank of 8 L-16's. One of the two series strings has a weak cell... so the other string is boiling away. He is charging for 2 hours with 2 hours rest to not overheat the charged cells. Too bad that last low cell cannot be charged alone. <br><br>Is it hard on the charged cells to continue to charge at ~C15 rate Like this during a eq cycle?<br><br>Todd<br><br>On Saturday, October 23, 2010 11:53am, "Darryl Thayer" <<a href="mailto:daryl_solar@yahoo.com">daryl_solar@yahoo.com</a>> said:<br><br><table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td style="font: inherit;" valign="top">Thanks Jamie I find your input to be most valuable, the photo shows how the plate material has been "blown off the positive grid" a sure sign of overcharging and overcharge rate<br>Daryl<br><br>--- On <b>Sat, 10/23/10, James Surrette <i><<a href="mailto:james@surrette.com">james@surrette.com</a>></i></b> wrote:<br><blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"><br>From: James Surrette <<a href="mailto:james@surrette.com">james@surrette.com</a>><br>Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery cell shorting<br>To: "RE-wrenches" <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>, <a href="mailto:kirk@vtsolar.com">kirk@vtsolar.com</a><br>Cc: "Serge Bourque" <<a href="mailto:Serge@surrette.com">Serge@surrette.com</a>><br>Date: Saturday, October 23, 2010, 10:15 AM<br><br><div id="yiv691939539"> <div style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;"> <font face="Arial" size="3">Hi Kirk,</font> </div> <br> <div style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;"> <font face="Arial" size="3">I know our brand is mentioned, so I don't want to sound as though we are ducking a failure. However, suspect from your tone, you agree 3 sets in 5 years represents a system problem and not battery defects.</font> </div> <br> <div style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;"> <font face="Arial" size="3">In order for these units to fail, I echo earlier statements that high charge rates relative to battery size is probably the cause. However, this could be compounded by high usage rates relative to bank size, i.e, over cycling and overcharging. Once you have a cell failure, then the overcharging issue is further exacerbated due to the drop in cell voltage - hence the high temp / bulging which will destroy any bank.</font> </div> <br> <div style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;"> <font face="Arial" size="3">If you have any tear down pics, I would happily review. Suspect you will see something like the attached (right side) on your positive. Positive on the left is a "well used" battery. The positive on the right has been severely overcharged.</font> </div> <br> <div style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;"> <font face="Arial" size="3">Hope this helps,</font> </div> <br> <div style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;"> <font face="Arial" size="3">Jamie</font> </div> <br> <br><br><br><br><br> <div style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;"> <br> <br> >>> jay peltz <<a href="mailto:jay@asis.com">jay@asis.com</a>> 10/23/2010 12:02 PM >>><br>Hi Kirk, </div> <div> <div style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;"> <br> </div> </div> <div> <div style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;"> Can you fill us in on how many batteries are in each set that was ruined? </div> </div> <div> <div style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;"> <br> </div> </div> <div> <div style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;"> thanks, </div> </div> <div> <div style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;"> <br> </div> </div> <div> <div style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;"> jay </div> </div> <div> <div style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;"> <br> </div> </div> <div> <div style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;"> peltz power<br> </div> <div> <div> <div style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;"> On Oct 22, 2010, at 12:39 PM, Kirk Herander, VSE wrote: </div> </div> <div style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;"> <br class="yiv691939539Apple-interchange-newline"> </div> <blockquote type="cite" style="border-left: 2px solid blue; margin-left: 8px; padding-left: 8px;"> <div style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;"> </div> <div lang="EN-US"> <div class="yiv691939539Section1"> <div style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;" class="yiv691939539MsoNormal"> <span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;"><span style="font-family: "Arial";">Hello,</span></span> </div> <div style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;" class="yiv691939539MsoNormal"> <span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;"><span style="font-family: "Arial";"> </span></span> </div> <div style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;" class="yiv691939539MsoNormal"> <span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;"><span style="font-family: "Arial";">I have an off-grid battery / generator / SW4024 system which has destroyed -3- sets of batteries in the last five years. By destroyed I mean multiple batteries having shorted cells, with electrolyte literally steaming out of them and bulging badly. The last two sets were Rolls T12-250’s. The first set was Trojan T105’s. This system has no solar, and I would not be surprised if the generator ran 10-12 hours a day charging the batteries, for the residents don’t believe in energy efficiency. I could see the batteries cycling to the point of being useless after a couple years, but the scary thing is the condition I’ve witnessed multiple times now. Any ideas as to why this has happened repeatedly across different brands of batteries? Thanks.</span></span> </div> <div style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;" class="yiv691939539MsoNormal"> <span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;"><span style="font-family: "Arial";"> </span></span> </div> <div style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;" class="yiv691939539MsoNormal"> <span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;"><span style="font-family: "Arial";">Kirk Herander</span></span> </div> <div style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;" class="yiv691939539MsoNormal"> <span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;"><span style="font-family: "Arial";">Vermont</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;"><span style="font-family: "Arial";"> Solar Engineering</span></span> </div> <div style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;" class="yiv691939539MsoNormal"> <span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;"><span style="font-family: "Arial";">802.863.1202</span></span> </div> <div style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;" class="yiv691939539MsoNormal"> <span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;"><span style="font-family: "Arial";">NABCEP(tm) Certified Solar Installer</span></span> </div> <div style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;" class="yiv691939539MsoNormal"> <span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;"><span style="font-family: "Arial";">NYSERDA-eligible Installer</span></span> </div> <div style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;" class="yiv691939539MsoNormal"> <span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;"><span style="font-family: "Arial";">VT Solar Incentive Program Partner</span></span> </div> <div style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;" class="yiv691939539MsoNormal"> <span style="font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman";"> </span></span> </div> </div> </div> <div style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;"> _______________________________________________<br>List sponsored by Home Power magazine<br><br>List Address: <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank" href="/mc/compose?to=RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>Options & settings:<br><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>List-Archive: <a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>List rules & etiquette:<br><a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br><br>Check out participant bios:<br><a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><br><br> </div> </blockquote> </div> <div style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;"> <br> </div> </div> <br><br>This email and its attachments have been scanned by iConnection E-Mail Firewall for viruses, spam, and malicious content. <br><br>The information transmitted in this email is intended only for the entity or person to which it is addressed and may contain confidential/privileged material. 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