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<DIV><SPAN class=250480413-05102010><FONT face=Arial>Bob</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=250480413-05102010><FONT face=Arial>since we've scheduled 2
days for the 400a upgrade and generator installation, a 8-12 hour static
period for the batteries won't be a problem. I suspect that the half day
battery rest before testing VOC is not usually an option for most
installers on service calls so their diagnosis could be consistently off
the mark. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=250480413-05102010><FONT face=Arial>If my VOC test finds a
low cell I want to be able to check it with the capacity tester but I don't find
anything rated below 12v. My original question was not "do capacity
testers work", I know they do, but which brand is reliable and
accurate. Seems that no one uses them so the question goes unanswered. </FONT><A
href="http://www.buchmann.ca/article25-page1.asp"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>http://www.buchmann.ca/article25-page1.asp</FONT></A><FONT
face=Arial> A good article on the topic is here for Wrenches enlightenment
on newer testing technology.</FONT></SPAN><FONT face=Arial> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><SPAN class=250480413-05102010>As for Daryls concern of
liability, I have this customers initials beside the paragraph declining
a "maintenance contract" on our original 2006 agreement. This
customer will pay for the battery maintenance & testing.
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=250480413-05102010><FONT face=Arial>Jim
Duncan</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org]<B>On Behalf Of </B>bob
ellison<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, October 04, 2010 10:15 PM<BR><B>To:</B>
'RE-wrenches'<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery capacity
testers<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=WordSection1>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Calibri size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">The
only way to do a capacity test is with a load bank over the rated discharge
period of the batteries, it they have a 6 hour rate, use that one. The 20 hour
rate takes too long! Voltage is a moving target and pretty much useless unless
the battery has been sitting with no charge or discharge for 12 hours or so,
and all that tells you is the state of charge nothing about the capacity of
the battery.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Calibri size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Calibri size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">If
you are going to buy a load bank the old resistor load banks are the best
choices, the newer electronic units are too sensitive to damage and the
failure rate is quite high according to my suppliers. They have gone back to
the resistor banks in most cases. The load banks can test up to a 48 volt bank
at one time, so you don’t need to test each cell for 6 hours, you can spend 6
hours and test them all at once! But your still going to spend 6 hours to do a
correct test<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Calibri size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Calibri size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">My
first experience with gels was bad enough to make me swear off them and that
was 18 years ago. I am sure they have I improved but most of my work is off
grid and flooded work best in that use.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Calibri size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Calibri size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Later,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Calibri size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Bob
Ellison<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Calibri size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Calibri size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Calibri size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Calibri size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">
re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org] <B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>North Texas Renewable Energy
Inc<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Monday, October 04,
2010 9:36 AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B>
RE-wrenches<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re:
[RE-wrenches] Battery capacity
testers<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Todd</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">I've heard the same
arguement, as well as its inverse. The battery choice was the
decision of the system owner. I know they are more sensitive to
charge/discharge abuse but I see the full charge rate last week at
52.xx V, just like day 1and I trust the Trimetric and the Sunny
Islands. We're taking down the entire system to upgrade & install a 400A
transfer switch so the batteries will have time to stabilize for the VOC check
& cleaning. </SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">I guess a more
accurate question would be is it good enough to properly check cell VOC
and not bother with the discharge capacity check? A compromise could
be cap check 12V blocks of cells instead of all 24 separately.
Or is the capacity checker a waste of
money.</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Jim</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> </SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"> ----Original
Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B>
re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org]<B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of
</SPAN></B>toddcory@finestplanet.com<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Monday, October 04, 2010 2:23
AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B>
RE-wrenches<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re:
[RE-wrenches] Battery capacity testers<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 13.5pt"><FONT face=Arial
size=4><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">I
know many on this list disagree, but this sounds SO typical for sealed
batteries. It is why I never use em... never! If they are 5 years old, you
are probably at the limit of their life. Replace em with flooded lead
calciums and your customers (and you) will be happy for 20+ years.<BR><BR>my
.o2<BR><BR>Todd<BR><BR><BR><BR>On Sunday, October 3, 2010 9:28pm, "North
Texas Renewable Energy Inc" <ntrei@1scom.net>
said:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">I have a
customer with a set of 24 Concord PVX-6480s that have twice failed during
grid outages during the night. No large loads are on the critical load panel
and, since it's at night when they drop to 50% dod, I'm not sure what's up
with them. I plan on cleaning and retightning all the cable connections
first to eliminate that possibility then checking VOC of each
cell. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Eventually
we'll install a 25 kW genset but my first task is to find out the state of
the batterys. The system turns five next spring so I don't think they
are near an early death. The BOS is 2 Sunny Island 4248s with upgraded
chipsets and the charger is set to spec though that may need to be bumped
up. The only culprit I suspect is the high summer temperatures in this
unconditioned equipment room. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Finally it may
be time to invest in a capacity tester. What brand is popular
among those Wrenches with lots of experience in diagnosing a batterys
health? The Concord DC5000 only comes in 12 & 24 V models and these
are 2V cells. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Thanks as
always<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Jim
Duncan<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">North Texas
Renewable Energy<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">486 W.N. Woody
Road<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Azle Texas
76020<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">NABCEP
Certified Solar PV<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Installer
No.31310-57<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">TECL
27398<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><A
href="mailto:ntrei@1scom.net">ntrei@1scom.net</A>
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">817.917.0527<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><A
href="http://www.ntrei.com/">www.ntrei.com</A><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR><BR><BR>Sent from Finest Planet
WebMail.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>