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<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Allan,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Everything you say is spot on. Scale is the
_mortal_ enemy of all tankless water heaters. Hopefully you change the air
cleaner on your vehicles more often in the dusty desert climate than you
would in a less dusty climate. Same principle. You accept the need to change out
the tank when if fills with scale, the tankless offers you the option to
maintain rather than replace. If the water quality is that bad, your clothes
washer and dishwasher and every hot water valve are also suffering
the effects of scale and providing you with reduced appliance and
fixture life. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>If the maintenance chore is an issue, have you
considered a water softener/water conditioner/etc. If the cost is an issue,
descaling a tankless is only slightly more involved than circulating
the descaling fluid in the coffee machine.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>I like to look at the places in the world where
others pay a premium for fuel and take their lead in energy related matters.
Tankless is a clear winner using this criteria.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Respectfully,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Bill Loesch</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Solar 1 - Saint Louis Solar</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=allan@positiveenergysolar.com
href="mailto:allan@positiveenergysolar.com">Allan Sindelar</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=danbob@otherpower.com
href="mailto:danbob@otherpower.com">Dan Fink</A> ; <A
title=re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, September 16, 2010 11:52
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [RE-wrenches] On Demand
Heaters for SDHW3</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>In the desert Southwest we tend to use wells for water supply,
and our water is often quite hard. While we don't do plumbing or DHW, we are
often asked to advise on other aspects of home systems. We advise generally
against tankless heaters because of our groundwater. The minerals leach out
when the water is heated - like the film that slowly forms inside a teapot and
is cleaned out with vinegar. Tankless heaters rely on small passages for
maximum surface area to heat water quickly. The passages slowly clog with
mineral buildup. So they end up costing enough in cleaning, maintenance and
repair costs to negate any advantage due to their higher thermal
efficiency.<BR><BR>Bottom line - their value depends on the characteristics of
the water you run through them.<BR><BR>
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<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=il><B>Allan</B></SPAN><B> Sindelar</B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><BR><A href="mailto:Allan@positiveenergysolar.com"
target=_blank><SPAN
class=il>Allan</SPAN>@positiveenergysolar.com</A><BR>NABCEP Certified
Photovoltaic Installer<BR>EE98J Journeyman Electrician<BR><B>Positive Energy,
Inc.</B><BR>3201 Calle Marie<BR>Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507<BR><B>505
424-1112</B><BR><A href="http://www.positiveenergysolar.com/"
target=_blank>www.positiveenergysolar.com</A></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV><BR>On
9/16/2010 9:00 PM, Dan Fink wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=mid:4C92D9E1.6070606@hughes.net type="cite">I work
exclusively with smaller off-grid systems in remote areas. So on-demand
heaters are the only thing I deal with....many of these systems are not
occupied for lengths of time (fishing and hunting tourist lodges, summer
cabins, etc.). A tank heater doesn't make sense in these applications,
especially if run only on propane (no solar DHW). <BR><BR>Almost all my
troubleshooting calls have been from clients self-installing new fixtures
that don't allow enough flow for the heater to turn on....or clogged pump
intakes (from using river water and rainwater) doing the same. A leaky
pressure pump (it froze up a bit last winter, but she's still a-workin', but
the heater don't, what's wrong?) will do the same too--hot water until
the pressure tank runs out, and not enough pump to keep up because of the
leaks. <BR><BR>Anyway, there are facets of on-demand that are PITA. But it's
the way of the backwoods, unless there is also solar DHW....then a tank
works. <BR><BR>DAN FINK <BR>Buckville Energy Consulting <BR><BR><BR>Darryl
Thayer wrote: <BR>> Hi all <BR>> I have done several On Demand Heaters
with SDHW, typically the SDHW provides 100% all summer (7-8 months) and then
falls short in the winter. I have never done a On Demand Heater that
has made the customer happy. They all have complained about 'chase the
temperature' because there is a range in which the heater will want to fire
or not fire, and at some time they will be in that temperature range.
then the unit will fire and not fire and the temperature changes at the
fixture. They complain. I get complaints even when the On Demand
Heater is installed by others. I tell customers, that the system will
work with the standard design, but if they want to install a On Demand, I am
out of the loop. Darry; <BR>_______________________________________________
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